"Give nanny a kiss goodbye"

[coverp]

Looking for impartial views on whether I am letting my generally strained relationship with MIL impact my response.

Whenever MIL sees the kids (aged 4 and 2), she tries to insist on big kisses and cuddles to say hello and goodbye. Sometimes they are cuddly kids and other times they are not - they interact with her well. I've always said "do you fancy a hug, high five or a wave?" And let them choose.

Today, MIL tried to insist on kisses - "why don't you want to kiss nanny, you're making nanny feel so sad, nanny is going to think you don't love her if you don't kiss her". To which I said "Enough". 2yo then said "how about a wave" and waved and blew a kiss. Which I thought was adorable.

Anyway, MIL has just texted saying "Hi, you really hurt me earlier. Its not too much to ask for the kids to cuddle their grandmother, your approach is ridiculous and they'll end up being rude brats".

I haven't replied, but am spitting. I know she'll have been drinking so definitely won't be engaging tonight. But sense check - AIBU to say they can choose to interact with her on their own terms?!

I’d let you DH deal with her.

I have never forced my children to physically interact with anyone. They’re now 23 and 15 and I’ve just got off the sofa from having a cuddle with the youngest (she was upset about something and asked for a hug). Teaching children they don’t have to do things because an adult said they should or you might hurt the feelings of an adult is totally acceptable in my book when it comes to physical interactions. I used to hate having to kiss relatives, some smoked, some drank, I hated the smell.

I speak as a Grandmother and great grandmother. No child should be forced to kiss or hug anybody. A child should know that they have the right to say no. When my grandchildren visit they often just say hello, and when they leave, they more often than not, come and hug me. Whatever they want to do is ok by me.

My FIL is the same with my kids. He does the "don't you love me" "oh no now grandads sad because you won't kiss him" crap as well. I've had to step in on more than one occasion and tell him to back off. Once I had to put myself between him and my eldest because he was going to grab her and kiss her when she had said no. That turned into a bit of a showdown but he hates me anyway so 🤷‍♀️
I hated being forced to kiss relatives when I was a kid and I'm not having mine grow up thinking they have to kiss people when they don't want to just because they love them.
Good for you for standing up for your kids.

As a little girl in the 1979s and 80s I was made to kiss grandparents, aunts and uncles. I didn't want to but I knew I would be in a lot of trouble later on at home if I said no.

I can still remember the horrible, uncomfortable feeling. It makes me shudder.

Well done OP and the other parents who are dealing with this differently.

YANBU. I did the same with my kids. I think it's different generations. I had to explain to both my in-laws and family that nowadays we teach kids to only kiss and hug if they want to. Doesn't matter if it their grandma, grandpa or even their own mother. I don't remember them liking my approach, but they were not as rude as your MIL either.

You are teaching your DC consent. And there are few things more important than that, you are absolutely not being unreasonable. You are being responsible!
Tell your MIL why you think it's important for children to learn consent and where it goes wrong if they don't have ownership of their bodies. She might understand then!

You are quite reasonable. I used to have this struggle with my now 30 year old children. I never coerced them to kiss and hug grandparents and they found their own level....I will add they have grown to be wonderful cuddly adults with a strong sense of self, and are not in the least bit bratty. I am not a tactile person unless I am literally overcome with love! as in, great best friends and special people, and I've always been the same. My In laws always found me stand offish and I didn't care tbh...way too many memories myself of 'having' to kiss elderly aunts papery, whiskery faces as a child myself and drunken breathed uncles..yuk!

It's really fucking weird to want anyone to hug or kiss you when they make it clear they don't want to hug or kiss you, regardless of the age / sex of anyone involved.

I’d let you DH deal with her.

Why? If you have something to say to someone say it yourself. It diminishes the message if you send it through a third party. Either talk about it together as a family or just say what you need to say. We don't need to be defaulting to men to speak for us.

Tell her the children may be young but they aren't too young to decide they don't want to be touched. No body should be forced to touch someone!

My dd doesn't kiss anyone. She is OK with me or dad rarely kissing her awake but not on her face. There's no way this is OK.. it's like when I tell people not to touch my 15 year old dyspraxic son with sensory issues they scoff at me. He hates being touched. He needs to be asked, see your hands and touched firmly. Lots of people assume they know what they like more than the actual child itself. It's too common. Kids expected to be uncomfortable to people please. My in laws Country she emergrated to, the kids wash the adults feet. Mil was floating that idea to us. It's not in our culture or mil culture. It's about subservient to elders and while it's nice in some ways of respect for elders, it's generally not considered safe in today's UK for a good reason to bring up subservient kids that have to touch and be touched whether they like it or not

My dc were always told it was their choice, none of us are touchy feely and we are all good with that. Nan can fick right off with her self pity, let her whinge and cry, stick up for your kids!

I'd be tempted to respond saying that instead of criticising your parenting skills she might want to reflect on why your dd doesn't want to kiss her and why she thinks it's appropriate for anyone of any age to be forced into any form of physical contact.

God, absolutely YANBU.

Learning consent starts very young. Kids need to learn from being tiny that they get to choose with whom and how they give affection. Bodily autonomy is so, so important.

I had an in-law do this 'I'm so sad! Kid won't give me a cuddle! Kid made grandparent sad!' to my three year old in front of me, so I defused it by stepping in and saying to my kid 'oh, grandparent is sad! That's okay grandparent, it's okay to be sad. We all feel sad sometimes! Kid gets to choose who they cuddle'. Normalised emotions, made it not kid's problem to solve, reinforced his right to not give a cuddle.

I have grown adult friends who went through this as children who still struggle with the sense of not having any say over what they do with their own bodies, unpleasant memories of being forced to perform affection in a specific way and being guilted into unwanted touch.

Your kids don't owe this person their touch. This person is an adult who has the capacity to deal with, or learn to deal with, their own disappointment. It's okay for her to be disappointed. It is absolutely never okay for her to put that on a tiny child to solve. Never stop sticking up for your child and their boundaries.

Only say this if you really do not touch them unless they are happy to be touched. Otherwise it just looks personal if you manhandle them into the car seats.

A grown adult can use their smarts to recognise the difference between necessary and unnecessary touch.

Kisses, cuddles? Unnecessary for safety or hygiene.

Forcing a toddler into a carseat so they're safe? Necessary. Changing a shitty nappy even if they don't want to stop playing? Necessary. Brushing their teeth even if they don't want you to? Necessary. It's not hard.

I'm a teacher - we have to take Safeguarding courses every year and a big part of this is teaching children about consent. Children are now taught in schools that it is up to them who they kiss/hug/touch - and quite right too! It's really important that we don't make children feel an obligation to provide others with physical contact. Could you tell MiL that they're being taught bodily autonomy in school/nursery and you are following the school's guidance? Maybe even find a link to send her to back you up so that she can see that this isn't something you've just made up?

I would be fuming at the text. My parents used to always want hugs and kisses and my DC were shy/ nervous (hadn’t met them much due to covid). I said every time, you can give a kiss, a wave or a high five if you like. I explained every time to DM that we are trying to teach them body autonomy and not force them into hugging if they don’t want to. Now they always want to hug/ kiss but its their (DC) choice.

YANBU. Not unreasonable at all to ask for a kiss and a hug, but if they're not keen then a wave or a high five is totally OK.

My mum's a classic cuddly Nanny type and LOVES a great big hug off her grandkids, but she'd never force it on them or make them feel guilty for not being keen. I remember once when she asked my nephew for a cuddle when he was about three, and he said firmly 'Not just NOW, Nanny, I'm very BUSY' and she thought it was hilarious and played along with 'Ooh, sorry, you're right - I can see now that you're busy doing some very important things there'

No, because then it gets into a tot for tat argument with texts flying about.

Ignore, and speak face to face, rather than texts. Silence is power with texts too.

The stretches some people will perform to justify kissing unwilling children is quite astonishing.

If you don't want to yes. Muslim men won't shake my hand and vice versa for Muslim women and male colleagues.

Would you force them? No you wouldnt.

Have you replied to her yet @coverp ?

Well done for standing up for your children! I have a similar rule with mine and all family are more than happy with it once I'd explained the reasoning. If she can't respect your children's bodily autonomy/is happy to break boundaries she doesn't get to spend time alone with them.