Page 6 | To literally BEG women to set themselves up, financially?

CallieRedux · 2023-08-07T13:14:37+00:00

Typed out a long post full of personal details, then deleted, but, honestly, the specifics don't matter. What DOES matter is that you save every tiny bit you can, because having FUCK YOU money is - by far - the most important thing you can do for yourself. It's saved me from everything from wrong relationships, shit jobs, from natural disasters... I have both made lots of money, and not, but having savings, and the ability to walk away is having POWER, and the best "self care" a woman can have. Shit happens. Things change. Even to you. Yes, you can save - even a little - when you are poor. Do it. Please.

anonymousxoxo · 07/08/2023 17:15

SunThroughTheCloudsAt6am · 07/08/2023 15:30

Absolutely agree.

Especially don't sacrifice your employment ability (I'd say career - but people take that wrong - I mean Jobs as well as Careers) in favour of your partner's on the promise/belief that they'll do right by you/you won't split up - it's harder to get back into work than it is to keep your hand in.

It can come as an absolute shock, and Fuck You money gives you the cushion to think clearly if it does happen.

100%

anonymousxoxo · 07/08/2023 17:17

SerafinasGoose · 07/08/2023 15:39

I'm less shocked.

The numerous, bitterly contested SAHM vs. WOHM threads on this site are testimony to this issue. I have no reason to care how other women structure their paid and domestic labour and I dont' care, but the deeply personal commentary surrounding this issue is something else. The objections run pretty much along the lines of: 'SAHMs are 'hated' on MN '. No more than other random groups of people: MiLs, DiLs, etc. 'They are undervalued by society'. What's their value to me? They can knock themselves out living exactly as they please and I'll offer no judgement or comment: just don't expect me to endorse your choices. I DGAF. 'Women should support other women's choices'. Why? Women owe no one 'support' for their decisions on the basis of shared XX chromosomes. Especially when they happen to think those decisions are really stupid.

As for the myriad 'waiting for a romantic proposal' threads, thus handing over a major decision for the future structure of their lives to a man, well frankly anyone daft enough to do so a thing is the author of their own misfortune. You want a thing, ask for it. If you don't get it then at least you know where you stand and can make your own decisions accordingly.

I CBA to waste time judging other women's choices, but nor can I pretend sympathy when choices such as the ones above have the predictable result. Actions have consequences. If a woman wants to live without considering the implications of these - and on top of it gets all pissed off or complains of feeling patronised when the reality is pointed out to her - all I will say is on her head be it.

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👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

DisquietintheRanks · 07/08/2023 17:17

LivingDeadGirlUK · 07/08/2023 15:45

That's only a problem if she becomes a stay at home parent.

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Or becomes disabled/ incapacitated to the point of not being able to work. Or has a disabled child with high care needs.

anonymousxoxo · 07/08/2023 17:19

Combusting · 07/08/2023 15:50

The biggest bizareness i hear on MN is -

"But my earnings would be wiped out by the nursery fees - so "we" decided it was best for me to stay home as I earn so little anyway - it's what made sense for us xxx"

Hang on.

First - you don't work just to see how many pennies are left after childcare during nursery years. You work for you. Your pension, Your independence. Your career trajectory. Your skills.
Second - "they are only ickle for only so long xxx" works for dad too. Yet, remarkably - they appear to only stay ickle for so long for mums....because of the age old "but he earns 5x more than me" ..so..
We as a society need to genuinely be asking what's happening here, where mums are magically seemingly ending up earning 5x less anyway, than dads. WHat's happening at school, at GCSE and A level subject choices, further ed and skills choices - that we have a glut of people (apparently) - where men make 5x more money than the women they are partnered with.

I cant ever be bothered to respond to the "but that's what WE decided for US, because my wages would wipe out with nursery/they are only ickle for so long" because of the sheer lack of foresight involved.

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

anonymousxoxo · 07/08/2023 17:21

Usernamen · 07/08/2023 15:58

I completely agree with you but this is not a popular view on MN.

IRL, I have never come across any woman who has abandoned her career and made herself financially dependent on a man after having children, but on MN this seems to be very common. Even in 2023. It has been quite the eye opener.

Same here

BatheInTheLight · 07/08/2023 17:28

My wife is a SAHM but has €15k of child benefit in her account. Maybe I should be worried about starting again if I need to because I certainly don't have access to that kind of cash! 😁 For the record, no, I'm not in the least bit concerned.

Thepeopleversuswork · 07/08/2023 17:31

@SerafinasGoose

The numerous, bitterly contested SAHM vs. WOHM threads on this site are testimony to this issue. I have no reason to care how other women structure their paid and domestic labour and I dont' care, but the deeply personal commentary surrounding this issue is something else. The objections run pretty much along the lines of: 'SAHMs are 'hated' on MN '. No more than other random groups of people: MiLs, DiLs, etc. 'They are undervalued by society'. What's their value to me? They can knock themselves out living exactly as they please and I'll offer no judgement or comment: just don't expect me to endorse your choices. I DGAF. 'Women should support other women's choices'. Why? Women owe no one 'support' for their decisions on the basis of shared XX chromosomes. Especially when they happen to think those decisions are really stupid.

Brilliant post and well done for saying it.

I also couldn't give a tinker's cuss how people structure their households/domestic labour and I understand that many women on both sides of this dilemma don't have much choice and have to deal with the hand they are dealt. And I do think, in the spirit of fairness, that there is a strand of spitefulness sometimes directed at SAHMs which is not always constructive.

But the oft-repeated idea that SAHMs are "undervalued" by society and should be valued more makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Why are we expected to not only endorse but actively celebrate a model which institutionalises financial weakness in women and which rewards them for ceding financial agency either to a man or to the government. If women are able to give up work to spend time with their children and have sufficient funds to do so, or if they are forced to do so for reasons beyond their control I'm completely fine with that. I have no judgement whatsoever.

I don't, however, believe I or "society" or anyone else owes them special status for having cut themselves off at the knees financially and weakened not only their own bargaining power in their own families but our broader bargaining power as women in society.

Usernamen · 07/08/2023 17:33

Thepeopleversuswork · 07/08/2023 17:31

@SerafinasGoose

The numerous, bitterly contested SAHM vs. WOHM threads on this site are testimony to this issue. I have no reason to care how other women structure their paid and domestic labour and I dont' care, but the deeply personal commentary surrounding this issue is something else. The objections run pretty much along the lines of: 'SAHMs are 'hated' on MN '. No more than other random groups of people: MiLs, DiLs, etc. 'They are undervalued by society'. What's their value to me? They can knock themselves out living exactly as they please and I'll offer no judgement or comment: just don't expect me to endorse your choices. I DGAF. 'Women should support other women's choices'. Why? Women owe no one 'support' for their decisions on the basis of shared XX chromosomes. Especially when they happen to think those decisions are really stupid.

Brilliant post and well done for saying it.

I also couldn't give a tinker's cuss how people structure their households/domestic labour and I understand that many women on both sides of this dilemma don't have much choice and have to deal with the hand they are dealt. And I do think, in the spirit of fairness, that there is a strand of spitefulness sometimes directed at SAHMs which is not always constructive.

But the oft-repeated idea that SAHMs are "undervalued" by society and should be valued more makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Why are we expected to not only endorse but actively celebrate a model which institutionalises financial weakness in women and which rewards them for ceding financial agency either to a man or to the government. If women are able to give up work to spend time with their children and have sufficient funds to do so, or if they are forced to do so for reasons beyond their control I'm completely fine with that. I have no judgement whatsoever.

I don't, however, believe I or "society" or anyone else owes them special status for having cut themselves off at the knees financially and weakened not only their own bargaining power in their own families but our broader bargaining power as women in society.

Another fabulous post.

Top thread. So goddamn refreshing.

Blackberriesbob · 07/08/2023 17:34

Thepeopleversuswork · 07/08/2023 17:31

@SerafinasGoose

The numerous, bitterly contested SAHM vs. WOHM threads on this site are testimony to this issue. I have no reason to care how other women structure their paid and domestic labour and I dont' care, but the deeply personal commentary surrounding this issue is something else. The objections run pretty much along the lines of: 'SAHMs are 'hated' on MN '. No more than other random groups of people: MiLs, DiLs, etc. 'They are undervalued by society'. What's their value to me? They can knock themselves out living exactly as they please and I'll offer no judgement or comment: just don't expect me to endorse your choices. I DGAF. 'Women should support other women's choices'. Why? Women owe no one 'support' for their decisions on the basis of shared XX chromosomes. Especially when they happen to think those decisions are really stupid.

Brilliant post and well done for saying it.

I also couldn't give a tinker's cuss how people structure their households/domestic labour and I understand that many women on both sides of this dilemma don't have much choice and have to deal with the hand they are dealt. And I do think, in the spirit of fairness, that there is a strand of spitefulness sometimes directed at SAHMs which is not always constructive.

But the oft-repeated idea that SAHMs are "undervalued" by society and should be valued more makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Why are we expected to not only endorse but actively celebrate a model which institutionalises financial weakness in women and which rewards them for ceding financial agency either to a man or to the government. If women are able to give up work to spend time with their children and have sufficient funds to do so, or if they are forced to do so for reasons beyond their control I'm completely fine with that. I have no judgement whatsoever.

I don't, however, believe I or "society" or anyone else owes them special status for having cut themselves off at the knees financially and weakened not only their own bargaining power in their own families but our broader bargaining power as women in society.

All of this 100%

x2boys · 07/08/2023 17:35

WhateverMate · 07/08/2023 16:55

It's a great idea OP but there's no point in 'literally BEGging' women who are turning to foodbanks to feed their families.

Quite it just shows how many posters don't live in the real.world and realise many families are struggling just to pay the bills and put food on the table if I was scraping money away from the family pot for " my get away fund" i.would be taking much needed money away from my kids and imagine if a man did the same for his get away fund he wouldn't be commended for it it would be financial abuse .

MillWood85 · 07/08/2023 17:36

I gave up my career to raise our family, but DH always paid into my pension fund and NI through his business. We also both have had generous life insurance cover when we had a mortgage, knowing that if anything happened to either of us then we'd manage financially. I always trusted him implicitly.

Until we split (lots of stress with child with SEN). Then he turned into someone that I didn't recognise. We worked things out and life improved dramatically as a result, but I now have a very generous FU fund in my name and very well concealed because I will never be in that position again.

anonymousxoxo · 07/08/2023 17:36

DisquietintheRanks · 07/08/2023 17:17

Or becomes disabled/ incapacitated to the point of not being able to work. Or has a disabled child with high care needs.

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That’s already been mentioned and discussed by pp

SerafinasGoose · 07/08/2023 17:37

TomatoSandwiches · 07/08/2023 15:40

Well done, that's a seriously impressive achievement 👏

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Seconded.

HagoftheNorth · 07/08/2023 17:37

And if you’re going to be a SAHM, make sure your partner pays you his share of the childcare/ housekeeper costs.

x2boys · 07/08/2023 17:40

MillWood85 · 07/08/2023 17:36

I gave up my career to raise our family, but DH always paid into my pension fund and NI through his business. We also both have had generous life insurance cover when we had a mortgage, knowing that if anything happened to either of us then we'd manage financially. I always trusted him implicitly.

Until we split (lots of stress with child with SEN). Then he turned into someone that I didn't recognise. We worked things out and life improved dramatically as a result, but I now have a very generous FU fund in my name and very well concealed because I will never be in that position again.

Is he also.allowed to.have a very generous fund or is it just you?

BeeDavis · 07/08/2023 17:42

Naunet · 07/08/2023 15:12

Completely agree with you, but some women have always been, and will continue to be their own worst enemies.

T H I S!

BLT24 · 07/08/2023 17:43

Zipps · 07/08/2023 15:28

Well said. So many on here and in real life don't. Absolutely zero excuse these days. I know plenty of women with disabilities and disabled dc that still work, invest and have their own finances but this seems to be the number excuse for women on MN not to work. Number two being that their partner is an high earner. Plenty more excuses get trotted out.
Too many also think inheritance or other people's will save them.
I don't understand why some women in 2023 think they should somehow be protected from being involved in sorting themselves out financially.
I have contributed equally financially and am as well off as my DH. We have separate as well as joint investments, savings and our own pensions.

Just because you know disabled people who work DOES NOT mean every disabled person can work.

I’m unable to work and get £561 a month in benefits, not entitled to a single other penny from government. My husband doesn’t ask for any of it and covers all of our expenses and gives me extra each month. I save some of it in an ISA.

Do I have an exit plan? I’m not sure what I’d be entitled to from the house we bought together before I gave up work. I know I’d be entitled to enough benefits to move to a shared house but wouldn’t have anything left over after bills and food, and if I did get any money from the house I’d have to spend it on another property within six months or it’s classed as income and would reduce my benefits. Does my situation concern me? Yes.

CherryMojito · 07/08/2023 17:43

parliamoglesga · 07/08/2023 14:57

Absolutely yes to this.

not popular on MN but my husband and I only pay the bills jointly and have our own bank accounts. We half the shopping and expenses. Been married for 10 years and it works so don’t @ me 😂

i have my own savings and investments and I know I can support myself if the marriage ends.

Same here.

Separate bank accounts, savings, premium bond accounts.

Both in professional jobs.

I can (and have) support myself if I need to.

rosetintedmemories2023 · 07/08/2023 17:45

EllenVannen · 07/08/2023 15:08

This is just sound common sense.

So many women on MN seem to be trapped with crappy men in bad relationships that they can't afford to leave.

So, get skilled-up ladies and learn to be financially independent and self-supporting - your increased self-respect will pay you back in spades.

I would also say to any women considering motherhood - do not even consider having a child unless you are prepared emotionally, financially, physically and psychologically to bring that child up alone.

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what puts a lot of women off is the cost of childcare.

You see a lot of women here say- my wage is the same as childcare hence i have given up my job. DH earns enough to support us both and we will go without holidays and new clothes for 3 years. It then becomes 6 years because of the second child. And of course being out of workforce for 6 years is not good for any professional career and they struggle to get back into work and it tends to be lower wage jobs that they can take off once both kids start school.

And with the way house prices are, a lower wage job cannot pay for the mortgage/rent on a small apartment and two kids if you are a single parents unless you get housing benefit (which can be quite stingy and way below average rent). You wouldn't be able to buy out your other half on a lower wage either.

So i guess thats the value of progressing in your career. Higher wages give you more options.

Tartareistasty · 07/08/2023 17:45

HagoftheNorth · 07/08/2023 17:37

And if you’re going to be a SAHM, make sure your partner pays you his share of the childcare/ housekeeper costs.

I don't get this logic. One goes to work, brings money for bills etc, the other "works" at home. Why should 1 pay the other

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/08/2023 17:46

Thepeopleversuswork · 07/08/2023 17:31

@SerafinasGoose

The numerous, bitterly contested SAHM vs. WOHM threads on this site are testimony to this issue. I have no reason to care how other women structure their paid and domestic labour and I dont' care, but the deeply personal commentary surrounding this issue is something else. The objections run pretty much along the lines of: 'SAHMs are 'hated' on MN '. No more than other random groups of people: MiLs, DiLs, etc. 'They are undervalued by society'. What's their value to me? They can knock themselves out living exactly as they please and I'll offer no judgement or comment: just don't expect me to endorse your choices. I DGAF. 'Women should support other women's choices'. Why? Women owe no one 'support' for their decisions on the basis of shared XX chromosomes. Especially when they happen to think those decisions are really stupid.

Brilliant post and well done for saying it.

I also couldn't give a tinker's cuss how people structure their households/domestic labour and I understand that many women on both sides of this dilemma don't have much choice and have to deal with the hand they are dealt. And I do think, in the spirit of fairness, that there is a strand of spitefulness sometimes directed at SAHMs which is not always constructive.

But the oft-repeated idea that SAHMs are "undervalued" by society and should be valued more makes me cringe with embarrassment.

Why are we expected to not only endorse but actively celebrate a model which institutionalises financial weakness in women and which rewards them for ceding financial agency either to a man or to the government. If women are able to give up work to spend time with their children and have sufficient funds to do so, or if they are forced to do so for reasons beyond their control I'm completely fine with that. I have no judgement whatsoever.

I don't, however, believe I or "society" or anyone else owes them special status for having cut themselves off at the knees financially and weakened not only their own bargaining power in their own families but our broader bargaining power as women in society.

So very true.

Like you said, if someone wants to be a SAHM go ahead but I'm not going to value it or support it just because I'm also a woman.

Why should I? SAHM's who facilitate their husband's career make it harder for me and women like me to compete against those men to further my own career.

WedRine · 07/08/2023 17:47

EllenVannen · 07/08/2023 15:37

As I understand it, any money goods you owned before and bring into the marriage are not classed as a "Matrimonal Assets".

Anything you buy during the marriage is.

You really need a solicitor's advice to clarify this.

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I was entitled to half of my exH's home that he'd inherited 15 years before we'd even met. He ended up having to buy me out as part of the financial settlement because his elderly mum was living in it.

tootiredforit · 07/08/2023 17:47

overitunderit · 07/08/2023 15:14

I agree with this but I'm also amazed by how many people think having personal savings in a marriage is your own money. If you're married, your savings are marital assets (other than in a small number of limited cases). If your husband was saving money on the side which he then hid from you on divorce you might be a bit irritated. Having said that I do think it's helpful to have some savings in case, as you say, you need to escape for eg DV reasons.

This. This. This.

Whilst I totally agree with the original poster about independence and money, marriage is a game changer. Obviously, it's far better than not being married - then you literally can end up with F**k all, and have to go to battle for everything, even with kids - being married does divide assets. Having your own personal pot means nothing!

TravellingSpoon · 07/08/2023 17:47

MillWood85 · 07/08/2023 17:36

I gave up my career to raise our family, but DH always paid into my pension fund and NI through his business. We also both have had generous life insurance cover when we had a mortgage, knowing that if anything happened to either of us then we'd manage financially. I always trusted him implicitly.

Until we split (lots of stress with child with SEN). Then he turned into someone that I didn't recognise. We worked things out and life improved dramatically as a result, but I now have a very generous FU fund in my name and very well concealed because I will never be in that position again.

I could have written this post exactly, including the child with SEN and the spilt with from someone I didnt recognise. Suddenly I saw the business steel his colleagues and clients must see every day, that I had never experienecd before.

We reconciled but spilt for good 4 years later. The previous split had taught me so much about myself and about how precarious my position was. I was able to build myself my own support network and was much less dependent financially when he decided he had had enough of being married the second time. It also meant I was able to move on quickly, rather than being left devestated and scared, and I didnt need to beg him to come back. So having financial independence gave me pride if nothing else.

x2boys · 07/08/2023 17:48

Tartareistasty · 07/08/2023 17:45

I don't get this logic. One goes to work, brings money for bills etc, the other "works" at home. Why should 1 pay the other

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I think there is an assumption by some posters,that SAHM will be married to very high earners who can afford to pay then a wage ?