To literally BEG women to set themselves up, financially?

[CallieRedux]

Typed out a long post full of personal details, then deleted, but, honestly, the specifics don't matter. What DOES matter is that you save every tiny bit you can, because having FUCK YOU money is - by far - the most important thing you can do for yourself.

It's saved me from everything from wrong relationships, shit jobs, from natural disasters... I have both made lots of money, and not, but having savings, and the ability to walk away is having POWER, and the best "self care" a woman can have.

Shit happens. Things change. Even to you. Yes, you can save - even a little - when you are poor.

Do it. Please.

Yup, women need a penis to work full time!

Because men = provider and women = childcare. Of course.

Yup, still no advice from them to pp who is struggling and wants to leave her partner but is financially dependent.

I felt a bit like this immediately after I went back to work (when DD was nine months old). After feeling a bit wobbly for a couple of months I quite quickly realised that I really enjoy working and while I would appreciate a bit less work and the ability to spend longer in the park etc for a while, it really wasn't a tradeoff I was prepared to make.

It's one thing to feel sentimental about missing opportunities to be with one's children a bit when they are small. I think all working parents have moments of feeling like that. But was I prepared to spend a decade doing not much more than taking my kids to baby groups, walking in the park together, baking and crafting and doing housework/cooking? No.

It would have been really good fun for a few weeks or months and then it would have got really old for me really fast. I recognise not everyone feels like this but the occasional yearning to be singing "wind the bobbin up" with my child wouldn't have been a big enough compensation for me to give up a career that I love and the right to make my own money.

That sense of wanting to be with your kids all the time (which many people experience) also becomes harder to square with reality after they reach tween and teen years. My DD is 12 now and while we still have fun together she spends quite a lot of timing hanging out with other people. If I'd chucked in my career to spend all my time with her I'd now feel a bit of a third wheel and feel very aimless and isolated.

That's before you get to the fact that I booted her dad out when she was four for flakiness/alcoholism/abuse. So I would be have been royally fucked anyway if I'd stopped work.

But I do think that this sentimentality about wanting to be with your kids, while the most natural thing in the world, can become something which artificially holds people back. Men don't seem to have difficulty with recognising that they can work hard and have some downtime in the park after work. Women often seem to feel it has to be all or nothing and it really doesn't.

You only have one DD though @Thepeopleversuswork. I'm sorry your husband was abusive. But with a different man, more kids, who knows? Again, it's all relative.

Also I don't care about how men may or may not feel or if it's different to me. I don't compare myself to that. The only thing I can be sure of is how I feel. Better to be honest.

The issue is societal norms are pushed on everyone. It is a societal norm for women to be the go to parent and it is a societal norm for men to be the providers.

Would a 'societal norm' in which all children are in childcare from 3 months; all couple have separate finances snd everyone HAS to be working full time for "equality" be actually any 'better?' It's a matter of opinion. I don't think so at all - sounds horrendous and very restrictive to me. Certainly not better for babies who are also part of society.

I think the only person making assumptions is you. You're assuming every SAHP is like you, but they're not. If you are a SAHP, or indeed, a working adult of any description, and you have factored in and put actions in place to ensure you have access to enough money should the worst happen, then this thread, and all the helpful advice in it, is not for you or about you. But the majority of people are not in that position and the most vulnerable of those are SAHPs with no current independent income.

Maternity leave is 1 year, but there's nothing wrong with childcare from 3 months. Your opinion is offensive to those who use childcare and have to work for a living to make ends meet, put roof over their kids head, clothes on them and food in their stomach. There is also paternity leave (which needs to be extended).

But the majority of people are not in that position and the most vulnerable of those are SAHPs with no current independent income. yup, there are so many threads on here where DH won't share money and the woman is part time and can't get promoted due to part time then the men at work being facilitated by SAHM are seen as more flexible/committed.

I'm sorry to hear that @howto0.

Are all your accounts shared, or just your savings?

As a PP said, I would start to put away what you can in an account in your child's name. If you can, make some enquiries about increasing your hours at work. Check what benefits you might be entitled to after you split.

I think the point when you are thinking about leaving is probably the hardest. Once you leave, although it will be tough, it will eventually work out.

Good luck.

The issue about social norms changes from generation to generation. It seems that young women are increasingly not getting married or having children because of expectations on them which do not apply to men.

I doubt it @TheaPrentice, I'm 51! I am happy with one child and no urge to have any more.

But I suppose what I'm saying is even if I'd no financial pressure to go back to work I don't think leaving work permanently would have been a good decision for me or my child.

Spending an extra couple of years with my child might have improved my life and her life marginally. Spending 10 years or more out of the workforce would certainly not, materially or otherwise. After the first few years I would have felt bored and isolated and would have become pretty redundant to my daughter after she went to school.

I do understand the strong pull to remain at home when you have very small children but I don't think this is a good enough reason to take the long-term hit to your finances (and your child's finances), your self-esteem, your social life and your sense of wellbeing of basically stepping off the career ladder forever. Unless you are rich beyond the dreams of avarice, I just don't think the trade-off is good enough.

Young women have seen what other women have went through thus are avoiding having kiddos/getting married e.g. putting up with man chick. They’re more likely to have 1/2 kids when they’re financially stable and don’t have to be dependent on anyone. Professional women age of becoming a mother is much higher.

I agree with your general point that choice is good, it's a shame though if you're implying that daycare at 3 months is generally bad for babies. Perhaps rather you meant that a one-size fits all approach would be bad, which I can agree with.

I chose to put my baby in daycare for the first time at 3 months (I went back to work at 5 months). At first one day a week, then gradually increasing it. It has worked really well for us: she got accustomed to the lovely ladies who look after her well before the onset of separation anxiety. It meant I had childfree days during mat leave to do my personal errands (medical appointments, grocery shopping, cooking and yes have a massage) so that there was less to do at the weekend and we could spend quality time as a family AND get rest. My daughter seems like a very happy little girl and she's excited to see her little pals at daycare. She screams in delight when she gets there some days.

I can also see that not all babies or families would be ready for daycare at 3 months. I am also lucky that her daycare is staffed by wonderful, experienced, caring ladies who honestly I think provide some extra elements of care that I couldn't... they are great at weaning, calm and affectionate all the time, and not trying to do chores or look at their phones during their working day.

I think your post raises related point about choice: that the current solution used by a lot of women is to rely on other women doing domestic work or childcare at relatively low hourly rates. i.e. I can work full time because I have a cleaner and affordable day care. So my economic freedom relies on the availability of cheap (let's face it usually female and often immigrant) labour. That is itself problematic...

I agree! I don’t get the one child comment, so many people have 1-2 child these days. Very rarely it’s 3-4+.

You're making a whole set of assumptions about childcare for young babies being a net negative which I don't accept and for which there is no real evidence.

There's no compelling longitudinal evidence that childcare harms children's development (outside of specific circumstances such as neglect or abuse which could equally occur in the home). There's a lot of anxiety and some anecdote but nothing at all in terms of broader scientific consensus to back this up.

Meanwhile, there is a very settled consensus that poverty and lack of opportunity is damaging to women and children.

Again, it's totally understandable that women feel torn and anxious about the prospect of leaving children to go to work. But that doesn't mean its worth throwing your financial independence away. It's short term pain vs long term gain.

I never said that’s what I believe should happen.

Men do need to take more responsibility for childcare and I’d also make paternity leave longer. 2 weeks isn’t enough.

It won’t be equal until society stops assuming only women should be the default parent.

Exactly. Very offensive!

2 weeks is a joke. Should be at least 6 months - 1 years like women, so their career is affected just like women and they have to partake in childcare/household duties and not have a SAHM (a woman) do it for a man.

I’d offer 6 months of parental leave, use it or lose it for both parents. Medical leave available in a minority of cases when a woman is unable to return after 6 months.

It won’t be equal until society stops assuming only women should be the default parent.

That won't happen until women stop assuming they are the default parent, especially when it comes to divorce.

Oh, absolutely. Some women are part of the problem.

Yup, agree

No way would any childcare worker have been getting my kids at 6 months. You must be joking.