Page 27 | To literally BEG women to set themselves up, financially?

CallieRedux · 2023-08-07T13:14:37+00:00

Typed out a long post full of personal details, then deleted, but, honestly, the specifics don't matter. What DOES matter is that you save every tiny bit you can, because having FUCK YOU money is - by far - the most important thing you can do for yourself. It's saved me from everything from wrong relationships, shit jobs, from natural disasters... I have both made lots of money, and not, but having savings, and the ability to walk away is having POWER, and the best "self care" a woman can have. Shit happens. Things change. Even to you. Yes, you can save - even a little - when you are poor. Do it. Please.

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 20:09

Well it depends what you mean by SAHM, doesn't it? A SAHM in a £5, £10 plus home (no mortgage) in London (many of them, by the way) is hardly financially vulnerable is she? A woman working on MW or even a medium wage is hardly sorted for life. Even a 'high earning' woman (again everyone defines this differently) could be left with very little if she has huge debts or lots if children or lived in Central London etc etc etc. The point is, it's all relative.

manontroppo · 10/08/2023 20:25

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 20:09

Well it depends what you mean by SAHM, doesn't it? A SAHM in a £5, £10 plus home (no mortgage) in London (many of them, by the way) is hardly financially vulnerable is she? A woman working on MW or even a medium wage is hardly sorted for life. Even a 'high earning' woman (again everyone defines this differently) could be left with very little if she has huge debts or lots if children or lived in Central London etc etc etc. The point is, it's all relative.

Your hypothetical SAHM in a multimillion pound London home - how does she survive in the 18 months it takes to get through divorce proceedings and liquidate the assets? How does she pay for the divorce lawyers?

ScarlettSunset · 10/08/2023 20:27

I was a mum who worked. My ex wouldn't share money (contributed nothing at all) and was financially abusive (before this was legally recognised).
Because I was working and had an income I was able to escape the situation. I didn't have much in savings but having that regular income made a difference.
If I'd been a SAHM and he'd been abusive in a different way, I'd probably still be living like that now as I wouldn't have been able to just get out.

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 21:27

"Your hypothetical SAHM in a multimillion pound London home - how does she survive in the 18 months it takes to get through divorce proceedings and liquidate the assets? How does she pay for the divorce lawyers?"

Why is it hypothetical? It's most definitely is not. And why wouldn't she have access to the same money as the DH if all accounts / savings are shared? Often done / most of it will be in her name anyway, for tax reasons.

Everyone has soooo much to say about SAHMs - without defining what they actually mean by s SAHM. Do you mean a woman who doesn't work for a year or two? Probably not likely to be a massive deal in the scheme of things but again, depends on what she did. A woman who takes the pre-school years out? Again, could be risky - or not, depending on the individual circumstances. Or a woman who leaves work altogether - likely to only happen in families who can easily afford this and don't miss the extra income. There are families with SAHMs and they still have live-in nannies. Loads of families like this in certain areas. There will be SAHMs who are financially vulnerable, of course. But there will be women who work who are financially vulnerable too - depending on their income. Regardless of any of this, I don't know how we got to a point in society where some women have convinced themselves that it's optional for a man to share his money with a woman who has given birth to his child / children. Some women even celebrate this as 'equality.' It's really not.

BorgQueen · 10/08/2023 21:45

I’d prefer DD didn’t marry, even though they earn the same she has a much better pension and she ( via a gift from us) put 90% of the house deposit.

She will also inherit everything from us, apart from 20% that is reserved for our Grandson.
If she does marry then we’ll change our wills so DGS gets 50% of our estate. That’s incase she inherits then dies and then SiL could well get her inheritance if she hasn’t willed her half of the house to DGS. Her partner has two older kids.

Lockeddownagain · 10/08/2023 22:02

You should.due to financial abuse I can't leave my marriage I've taught my nine year old to save my family qre spenders and im fucked

Thepeopleversuswork · 10/08/2023 22:06

@TheaPrentice

Everyone has soooo much to say about SAHMs - without defining what they actually mean by s SAHM.

It’s a fair challenge.

FWIW I have no judgement for anyone who chooses to stay at home provided they can afford to.

I do draw a distinction between women taking a few years out to be with small kids and professional housewives.

Choosing to scale back commitments and focus on young family is totally understandable: working with small kids is a big burden and many families really struggle with maintaining this and having both parents working.

But I think actively setting out to spend decades in a state of dependency on your husband and critically to plan to do this beyond the point when your children are all in full time education is a whole other ballgame. Yes there are plenty of worthy distractions etc and yes there are ways to mitigate the financial risk but I do think maintaining a sense of purpose and security is harder when the whole foundation of your financial life basically depends on whether or not you meet your husband’s approval. And while I wouldn’t judge anyone for this per se I would consider it reckless. And certainly wouldn’t want this for my daughter.

The problem is that quite a lot of women start with scenario A and find that they get tipped into scenario B.

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/08/2023 22:16

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 21:27

"Your hypothetical SAHM in a multimillion pound London home - how does she survive in the 18 months it takes to get through divorce proceedings and liquidate the assets? How does she pay for the divorce lawyers?"

Why is it hypothetical? It's most definitely is not. And why wouldn't she have access to the same money as the DH if all accounts / savings are shared? Often done / most of it will be in her name anyway, for tax reasons.

Everyone has soooo much to say about SAHMs - without defining what they actually mean by s SAHM. Do you mean a woman who doesn't work for a year or two? Probably not likely to be a massive deal in the scheme of things but again, depends on what she did. A woman who takes the pre-school years out? Again, could be risky - or not, depending on the individual circumstances. Or a woman who leaves work altogether - likely to only happen in families who can easily afford this and don't miss the extra income. There are families with SAHMs and they still have live-in nannies. Loads of families like this in certain areas. There will be SAHMs who are financially vulnerable, of course. But there will be women who work who are financially vulnerable too - depending on their income. Regardless of any of this, I don't know how we got to a point in society where some women have convinced themselves that it's optional for a man to share his money with a woman who has given birth to his child / children. Some women even celebrate this as 'equality.' It's really not.

Regardless of any of this, I don't know how we got to a point in society where some women have convinced themselves that it's optional for a man to share his money with a woman who has given birth to his child / children. Some women even celebrate this as 'equality.' It's really not.

You keep saying this like women need men to 'share' their money. I need my husband to pay his fair share of bills but I don't need him to share the rest of his money because I have my own money that I can spend as I wish because it is mine.

I don't understand how it isn't equality. We both work, we both provide financially, we both do our fair share around the house and with childcare and we both have access to our own money.

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:05

It isn't equality and never will be because it's obviously women who experience pregnancy, birth, bf and possibly complications as a result which are impossible to predict. If you only have one child that's one thing - (it seems like most people in here only have the one?) - but obviously the impact is greater the more children you have, especially if the babies are fairly close together. If men want a woman to go through all this, the least he can do is be prepared to share finances and I can't fathom why any woman would possibly accept anything less. Why share you genetics and bring a new life or multiple lives into this world, with all the uncertainties that come with that, physically, psychologically and emotionally, if you can't even manage to share your bank accounts?

I accept it's different with step-families or second marriages where there may well be children from previous marriages to consider.

But why should men have their cake and eat it in this way? Why should women have the impact of childbearing but are now brainwashed to expect so little from men. You shouldn't have to ask your husband to support you and your child. He should want to! He should insist. This applies whether you work or not. It's the very least he can do and if he isn't prepared to even do this basic thing, then what is the point and how can anyone respect a man like that? Where is his integrity and what is the point of him?

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:21

Why do you need access to 'your own money' though? Why the need for secrecy if you trust and respect each other. I've never once questioned my DH's spending habits and vice versa. We've had joint finances since we were 28. If I buy something he respects that as my decision and would not question it. I wouldn't question him either. Wr are both responsible, free adults. We don't compete about who spends what or when or how. It doesn't matter. We have very different spending habits and that's fine.

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/08/2023 23:22

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:05

It isn't equality and never will be because it's obviously women who experience pregnancy, birth, bf and possibly complications as a result which are impossible to predict. If you only have one child that's one thing - (it seems like most people in here only have the one?) - but obviously the impact is greater the more children you have, especially if the babies are fairly close together. If men want a woman to go through all this, the least he can do is be prepared to share finances and I can't fathom why any woman would possibly accept anything less. Why share you genetics and bring a new life or multiple lives into this world, with all the uncertainties that come with that, physically, psychologically and emotionally, if you can't even manage to share your bank accounts?

I accept it's different with step-families or second marriages where there may well be children from previous marriages to consider.

But why should men have their cake and eat it in this way? Why should women have the impact of childbearing but are now brainwashed to expect so little from men. You shouldn't have to ask your husband to support you and your child. He should want to! He should insist. This applies whether you work or not. It's the very least he can do and if he isn't prepared to even do this basic thing, then what is the point and how can anyone respect a man like that? Where is his integrity and what is the point of him?

We agreed to have a baby together. I wasn't doing him a favour, I wanted to have a baby just as much as he did.

Independence is important to me, I am my own person and that didn't stop when I got married and again, it didn't stop when I had a child. I don't want someone else to provide for me financially, especially if it's because of the fact that I'm a woman. No thanks, I wouldn't be with someone who 'insisted' on providing for me financially.

I wouldn't respect a man who thought I needed to be financially supported just because I have a vagina.

NobblyBob · 10/08/2023 23:25

manontroppo · 10/08/2023 20:25

Your hypothetical SAHM in a multimillion pound London home - how does she survive in the 18 months it takes to get through divorce proceedings and liquidate the assets? How does she pay for the divorce lawyers?

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@TheaPrentice these questions were directed at you. Do you have a response?

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/08/2023 23:26

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:21

Why do you need access to 'your own money' though? Why the need for secrecy if you trust and respect each other. I've never once questioned my DH's spending habits and vice versa. We've had joint finances since we were 28. If I buy something he respects that as my decision and would not question it. I wouldn't question him either. Wr are both responsible, free adults. We don't compete about who spends what or when or how. It doesn't matter. We have very different spending habits and that's fine.

Because I earned it, why wouldn't I have access to it? It's mine.
Because I'm entitled to privacy, I don't have to or need to tell him everything just because we're married.

We also don't ask questions about spending, don't compete and have different spending habits. It works for us.

anonymousxoxo · 10/08/2023 23:27

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:21

Why do you need access to 'your own money' though? Why the need for secrecy if you trust and respect each other. I've never once questioned my DH's spending habits and vice versa. We've had joint finances since we were 28. If I buy something he respects that as my decision and would not question it. I wouldn't question him either. Wr are both responsible, free adults. We don't compete about who spends what or when or how. It doesn't matter. We have very different spending habits and that's fine.

Because it’s my money, I earned it and the payslips are in my name thus should go to my bank account. If someone wants money, they can go work for it

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:33

"I wouldn't respect a man who thought I needed to be financially supported just because I have a vagina."

Well you do have a vagina which means you are the one giving birth and if you were to have two or several children as most women do, that takes its toll - two / three pregnancies, three births, three maternity leaves. That's if you escape PND or any other complications. You can never predict this. Nobody is saying women shouldn't have a career / of course not - but the impact of childbirth is real and affects men and women differently. To try to diminish this impact is misogyny at its peak. If a man needs to financially support his family for a period, so what - this is the very least he can do, frankly, and no women should ever expect anything less.

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:34

NobblyBob - I already replied to that post earlier.

NobblyBob · 10/08/2023 23:58

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:34

NobblyBob - I already replied to that post earlier.

Why is it hypothetical? It's most definitely is not. And why wouldn't she have access to the same money as the DH if all accounts / savings are shared? Often done / most of it will be in her name anyway, for tax reasons.

Your response is only relevant to your own circumstance if you were faced with divorce proceedings, it's not true of the SAHM situations being discussed. (And yet you have the gall to criticise @anonymousxoxo for reflecting her own experiences.) The only person bothered about you being a SAHM is yourself.

TheaPrentice · 11/08/2023 00:08

I want talking about myself at all. Just because a woman is a SAHM, why assume she would have less access to money? If all accounts are joint she can access everything just as easily as him.

That post you refer to was specifically asking about 'theoretical SAHMs in multi million homes' (or something like that). So that's what I was responding to.

PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain · 11/08/2023 01:32

anonymousxoxo · 10/08/2023 15:52

I do that and work!

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No you don't. Nobody is cuddling their crying baby or taking their toddler to stay and play while they're supposed to be working.
Most people would love to have a job that was flexible enough to allow them to leave at 4 pm AND still have opportunities for promotion, so stop pretending your life is hard.

anonymousxoxo · 11/08/2023 06:33

PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain · 11/08/2023 01:32

No you don't. Nobody is cuddling their crying baby or taking their toddler to stay and play while they're supposed to be working.
Most people would love to have a job that was flexible enough to allow them to leave at 4 pm AND still have opportunities for promotion, so stop pretending your life is hard.

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i work from home and finish at 4pm, my industry is remote but ok

anonymousxoxo · 11/08/2023 06:37

@PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain time and attitudes have definitely changed. In many industries/sectors, people are remote/hybrid. Men too, not just women. There are people who work from home without kids. So, it’ll hard to discriminate against Mums for promotions?

Many people apply for flexible working hours so do 8-4. It’s only the men who seem to want to work all hours and affected women getting promoted, they can’t do that anymore

PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain · 11/08/2023 06:47

anonymousxoxo · 11/08/2023 06:37

@PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain time and attitudes have definitely changed. In many industries/sectors, people are remote/hybrid. Men too, not just women. There are people who work from home without kids. So, it’ll hard to discriminate against Mums for promotions?

Many people apply for flexible working hours so do 8-4. It’s only the men who seem to want to work all hours and affected women getting promoted, they can’t do that anymore

Yes, but most employers stipulate that you can't have the kids at home with you when you're supposed to be working, and a lot of jobs (eg surgery) just can't br done remotely. This is my original point- everybody's situation is different and you can't generalise in the way she is doing.

anonymousxoxo · 11/08/2023 06:53

PopGoesTheWeaselYetAgain · 11/08/2023 06:47

Yes, but most employers stipulate that you can't have the kids at home with you when you're supposed to be working, and a lot of jobs (eg surgery) just can't br done remotely. This is my original point- everybody's situation is different and you can't generalise in the way she is doing.

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Who said anything about having kids at home? My point was relating to the commutes and people can do drop off/pick ups now?

People use their lunch hour between 8-8:30 and 3:30-16:00.. So no need for childcare as at school.

Do need nursery for younger kids but then these mums/dads do shorter day at nursery so pretty much school hours near enough and saves them money…

DontMakeMeShushYou · 11/08/2023 08:21

TheaPrentice · 11/08/2023 00:08

I want talking about myself at all. Just because a woman is a SAHM, why assume she would have less access to money? If all accounts are joint she can access everything just as easily as him.

That post you refer to was specifically asking about 'theoretical SAHMs in multi million homes' (or something like that). So that's what I was responding to.

Well I guess if your starting point is that nothing could ever go wrong, it might be ok to assume that the SAHP would always have equal access to money. But you can't be so naive as to think that once a marriage has broken down, the earning partner is going to be delighted to give his soon-to-be-ex equal access to his salary. A few people might, the overwhelming majority won't. The point of the thread is to encourage women to plan for the worst case scenario.

SouthLondonMum22 · 11/08/2023 09:05

TheaPrentice · 10/08/2023 23:33

"I wouldn't respect a man who thought I needed to be financially supported just because I have a vagina."

Well you do have a vagina which means you are the one giving birth and if you were to have two or several children as most women do, that takes its toll - two / three pregnancies, three births, three maternity leaves. That's if you escape PND or any other complications. You can never predict this. Nobody is saying women shouldn't have a career / of course not - but the impact of childbirth is real and affects men and women differently. To try to diminish this impact is misogyny at its peak. If a man needs to financially support his family for a period, so what - this is the very least he can do, frankly, and no women should ever expect anything less.

Of course you can’t predict it. You can’t predict anything which is one of the reasons why I have financial independence.

I went back to work full time after 3 months maternity leave and plan to do the same again next time.

Of course the impact is there but again, I wanted a baby just as much as my husband. He doesn’t owe me anything.