To literally BEG women to set themselves up, financially?

[CallieRedux]

Typed out a long post full of personal details, then deleted, but, honestly, the specifics don't matter. What DOES matter is that you save every tiny bit you can, because having FUCK YOU money is - by far - the most important thing you can do for yourself.

It's saved me from everything from wrong relationships, shit jobs, from natural disasters... I have both made lots of money, and not, but having savings, and the ability to walk away is having POWER, and the best "self care" a woman can have.

Shit happens. Things change. Even to you. Yes, you can save - even a little - when you are poor.

Do it. Please.

I am critical because it personally disadvantages me because I was born with a vagina at work.

But you said this:

These SAHM are contributing to gender pay gap, gender pension gap and reasons why lack of women in senior positions.

That's nonsense.

Women are disadvantaged as you say by a still too-patriarchal society. We - and you in your workplace - are not disadvantaged specifically by SAHM.

I'm critical of such men who need SAHM because they cannot possibly do their own laundry, cook a meal and care for their own children. The bar is so low for these men. I'm not on anyone's side, I hate the system.

So true! I've worked my way up in a male dominated industry, I've always been the only woman in the company. My colleagues roll out of bed, put on an ironed shirt, eat breakfast they haven't made, and just turn up at work, knowing whatever time they return dinner will have been cooked for them and bed made etc. I have friends with more independent kids 🤣 They cannot wrap their heads around why anyone would need flexible working, not want to go for a pint after work, or generally have anything else to think about other than work. Luckily I am childfree by choice as there's absolutely no way I would have been able to progress in my job otherwise.

I do wonder if women actually levelled up and childcare responsibilities were shared equally, what the point of marriage would be? Is it just a financial safety net for SAHMs at this point? Genuine question, not trying to be contentious. I truly believe women should be prioritising their financial independence and I wish there were more in my industry!

But, how can you not see they are contributing it because they are facilitating a man's career?

They do a mans cooking, cleaning and laundry? Also, do childcare/appointments.

How do you think that has an affect on me as a woman in a male dominated industry?

@EarringsandLipstick how do you think the above has an affect on a single mother?

I'm critical of such men who need SAHM because they cannot possibly do their own laundry, cook a meal and care for their own children.

That's a bit of a stretch

These families have made their own choices. That's for them to decide and not for you to judge their abilities - or to know that they don't do their own laundry or cook a meal.

I'm a single parent. Most of my co-workers are married. I internally feel frustration that they do not appreciate the heavier mental & practical load I carry, and I have to bite my tongue to insensitive comments.

I don't hold two parent families responsible for the challenges I face though.

I know because they talk about it but ok lol

I internally feel frustration that they do not appreciate the heavier mental & practical load I carry, and I have to bite my tongue to insensitive comments. exactly?

Are we telling our sons the same? Don’t marry if you will be the higher earner

No we're mostly not. It's one of those double standards - men are still basically expected to provide, and often end up financially screwed if they divorce.

Is [marriage] just a financial safety net for SAHMs at this point?

To a large extent, yes. However it also provides rock-solid security in the event of one partner dying (often means that the surviving spouse gets a pension which they wouldn't get if they weren't legally married).

if women actually levelled up and childcare responsibilities were shared equally, what the point of marriage would be? Is it just a financial safety net for SAHMs at this point?

You know, despite the pragmatism contained in this thread, I can still support marriage being primarily for commitment and love.

A happy supportive marriage makes most things easier for most couples. It can be a joyful, enriching thing (so I hear!)

Marriage shouldn't obviate the need for protecting one's personal and financial situation but it doesn't mean it should only be treated in economic terms.

Yup, that's why some men are refusing to get married.

I just did what I had seen the women in my family do before me and stayed home with the children.

That's why it's important for me to set an example for my children so they don't fall into this vulnerable position. Even if the parents marriage is perfect, doesn't mean it will be the same for them!

People are so obsessed about SAHMs ffs. What next? Will women with three children blame those with just one for 'disadvantaging them in the workplace' because they only have one lot of school pick-ups, parents' evenings etc. Will single mums blame married mums for having husbands available. Will those with children with SEN blame those with non SEN children? Who else can you blame - how about families with nannies? Cleaners? Is it the fault of grandparents, even MILs who look after kids so mums and dads can work because some women are disadvantaged by not having such help? Nooo! It's all down to those terrible SAHMs isn't it. Of course it is. How very dare they and their husbands live the way they do!

Exactly.

We don't all live on separate islands. Choices affect society and yes, it may be best for their individual circumstances for whatever reason but it isn't best for society for several reasons including women like us who have to compete with men who have SAHM's facilitating their careers.

@anonymousxoxo

I've also been a woman in a male-dominated profession. There was a mix of men with SAHM wives, wives who worked p/t, wives who worked f/t.

It's silly to assume all the high achieving successful men only have SAHM as their wives, smoothing life for them. For sure, it's true for some.

The biggest issue for women in the workplace is that of child-having & rearing. Physically the first requires at least a minimum period out of the workplace and potentially a knock on impact on their career.
The second is often predicated on the notion of the woman as primary carer, when it doesn't need to be the case.

That's as true for mothers working outside the home as SAHM.

I think you sound unfairly judgmental about your male colleagues. It may be in your particular workplace all these men are incompetent parents who leave it all to their wives but you can't decide that's universally the case (my ultimate boss has been an asshole to me on many occasions - he's a very hands-on dad doing school drops, appointments etc. it's not an automatic equivalence!)

I don't think this thread is sad- it's empowering. I like the Maya Angelou quote: "hoping for the best, prepared for the worst, and unsurprised by anything in between."

I love my current job. One reason for this is that, because of my current financial position, I could walk away at any point. This makes me more confident, allows me to take more risks at work and means I am very comfortable asking for what I want or need. Having financial independence within, and an escape route from, a relationship or marriage can be equally beneficial.

how do you think the above has an affect on a single mother?

What?

I don't understand your point here genuinely? Did you read my post?

And guess who gets the promotion.. Man or women? Wonder who it'll be!

Yes this exactly.
I mean, I get people find themselves in all sorts of situations beyond their control. However there are things you can do before getting married / having kids to help prevent so many of the problems I see women in on MN.
I met my partner and lived with him for 3 years before committing to buying a house. In that time I got a good measure of him and his life goals / aspirations. What his work ethic was like, how he treated me and my family. How he treated his own parents and total strangers. Did we align with our thoughts about kids and the future?
Then after buying a house it was another 4 years until we got married. Then after marriage it was another 3 years until we had our first child.
By the time the first child was born (and way before this) I was 100% sure of his personality and aside from a brain altering event I know with as much certainty as I know myself, that he would do everything he could for me and our kids.
I get that we were young when we met so lucky in that respect but still, I would always want to get to know someone over years and live with them before bringing children (from another relationship) or giving birth to children into the relationship.

I used to work in the city and the amount of men who would willingly do additional hours to miss 'bath and bedtime' was not only awful but meant all of us were expected to stay as they couldn't be arsed to support their partners and parent their children.

But, don't you think there is a societal expectation that when a woman becomes a mother she will become a SAHM/go part time?

I don't judge my colleagues because they didn't create the patriarchy, but I do question the contribution

As PP said: I used to work in the city and the amount of men who would willingly do additional hours to miss 'bath and bedtime' was not only awful but meant all of us were expected to stay as they couldn't be arsed to support their partners and parent their children.

I internally feel frustration that they do not appreciate the heavier mental & practical load I carry, and I have to bite my tongue to insensitive comments. exactly?

Yes, but I won't extrapolate from that that I can blame all two parent families for any career progression issues I have - which is what you are doing by blaming SAHM for your workplace challenges.

It's lazy assumptions & stereotyping.

Yes! They should.

There is a lot of dismissive and scathing language on this thread about women who make this mistake, but if you've never been told, how do you know?

I am in am 40s now and growing up in the 80s I was explicitly told by my parents that my education, career and earning power was not very important because I would one day have a husband who took care of all that, and that this was right and desirable. My brothers were told to take it all more seriously because they would have a wife and children to take care of.

Having never been encouraged to question or think critically, I assumed my family were giving me good advice. I'm sure there are people who would have been strong enough to throw off that teaching, but I wasn't, and I bet I'm not unusual. 30 years later, I get it and am giving my own children a very different message.

My dad was very keen for all of his children (girls and boys alike) to marry people with more money and assets than they had, precisely because he was worried that a spouse could end up with half of our family money and property. We were all given houses and a substantial amount of money, and it was a worry to him that the rewards of his family's hard work could be taken by someone else. In the event, it wasn't an issue because of whom we married - but I can see now why he'd have been concerned. I'd feel the same about my own children. If they married someone with a low income or who planned to be a SAHP, I think I'd be passing money on via any grandchildren instead (e.g. paying school fees and/or setting up a trust fund).