To literally BEG women to set themselves up, financially?

[CallieRedux]

Typed out a long post full of personal details, then deleted, but, honestly, the specifics don't matter. What DOES matter is that you save every tiny bit you can, because having FUCK YOU money is - by far - the most important thing you can do for yourself.

It's saved me from everything from wrong relationships, shit jobs, from natural disasters... I have both made lots of money, and not, but having savings, and the ability to walk away is having POWER, and the best "self care" a woman can have.

Shit happens. Things change. Even to you. Yes, you can save - even a little - when you are poor.

Do it. Please.

@Frazzledmum123

find it bizarre that people go into marriage planning on having an escape,

This isn't what it's about. It's about backing yourself. Ensuring your needs aren't ignored or subjugated as part of marriage / child rearing & possible reduction in earnings or career opportunities.

The specific arrangements are based on your own circumstances but the priority is making sure you are not in an excessively vulnerable position compared to your spouse.

I think the problem is that people rush into these things without making sure they are with the right person

Do you? Do you really?

This may happen sometimes. However, many times, the nature of an abusive spouse is not revealed until after you have DC.

I knew my H 7 years before we got married. In retrospect there were red flags. Unfortunately these weren't apparent to me until well into our marriage & having children.

I know his character/soul enough to know he 100% does not have it in him to screw me over completely.

Oh god love you. I'm sure you your DH is lovely. However, believe me, any man (and presumably any woman, if the circumstances permit) is capable of shitty exploitative behaviour, when relationships end.

I am very independent so could totally live on my own if I had to quite easily,

Well, you've just talked about him supporting you & paying for everything when you were on mat leave. What if he'd ended it then? How easy would it be to support yourself while caring for small DC in a stage of shock?

It's easy to think you could manage easily - but when everything that's certain is taken away from you, it's not easy at all. Hence the need for access to finance & earnings.

I think 4 day week would be so good for this.

I did 4 day week once a month an that extra day was great. Sorted everything that needed sorting and had a weekend still. No one day ret because you spend 1 days sorting crap.

I think everyone should try to have some savings of their own wherever possible (I know it can be difficult especially in times like these). Both women and men too. It's not just a safety net for women who may be in financially vulnerable situations but anyone can find themselves in a difficult situation.
It only takes one change of manager for a lovely job to turn into a toxic working nightmare and just knowing you COULD walk away can help give you more strength to search for another one when you're being worn down by it.

"never ever rely on a man to save you, and have your secret stash ready to go!"

Not least because most of the time they're either dragging you down or screwing you over 🙄 😂

@SouthLondonMum22 I agree with what you said here: *So very true.

Like you said, if someone wants to be a SAHM go ahead but I'm not going to value it or support it just because I'm also a woman.

Why should I? SAHM's who facilitate their husband's career make it harder for me and women like me to compete against those men to further my own career.*

I work in a male dominated industry, I’m the only women in my team. These SAHM are contributing to gender pay gap, gender pension gap and reasons why lack of women in senior positions.

I don’t understand how SAHM is the hardest job in the world bullshit.

It really isn’t.

Anyway my savings are staying in my sole account and I act like I’m poor. If I need to leave I can, by the time it gets to court the money will have been spent. How will he find out something he never knew about and has disappeared?

Totally agree. Even squirelling little bits away will help - fiver saved on shopping etc.

I've always been the higher earner, but now it's even and I hope he keeps earning more. We have our finances set up so we each have the same personal spending money - many heated arguments when he wanted to keep a bonus payment for himself when I'd been making sure he had equal access to my money for years. But we're there now. Money goes in one pot and everything comes out of that, leaving ourselves x amount each month for personal spending.

He wastes his on cigarettes and rubbish, I have a small investment amount set up each month and some savings...building slowly.

Actually, the joint savings are in my name too - but I'd change them to joint if he wanted me to. He just doesn't bother getting involved in it.

Surely that could equally apply to men?

@Skye109

I'm very sorry to read your post 😔

This is a tough situation.

My first point is probably moot at this point but:
If I were to put DC in to after school childcare it costs either the same as what I take home or sometimes more, so it's financially pointless.

Women need to stop thinking this way.

You need to see childcare as a shared cost (so proportionate to each person's salary). Then you need to see your work as not just money on the table but as a longer-term investment in you and your career. (I appreciate this doesn't work for all roles or where the woman doesn't see her work as a career, more about earning a certain amount).

But your situation is more complex.

This man is abusive and nasty. There is always a way out. I thought exactly how you did at many points, that I had no choice.

However when I was inches from a breakdown I knew I'd no choice but to end it, for my sake, for the children's sake.

There have been many compromises required. On bad days I feel full of sadness for what I / DC had to give up (other days I feel ok & proud of what we've survived).

I would start by getting some legal & financial advice, and checking your entitlements. You are doing pretty much everything - it may be easier to do everything but without him.

Yes, you may need to sell your house. How viable that is depends on the rental situation where you live, the equity in the house etc.

My life is not easy. I have few friends. No relationship since my marriage ended. But I've survived. I've a job I like a lot. Kids are doing well. I don't have to dread the key in the door. I'm increasingly immune from his abuse.

Someone quashing your spirit is not something that's worth accepting. I promise you there are options. 💐

It's exactly that, being able to walk away and have some money there to do that - even if he's legally entitled to half, if it's on your account you can spend it on food/rent and no one can stop you.

Also, even if you don't need to walk away, what if he's the one that walks. Or dies. What do you do if you don't have a joint account with enough money in it for the short term?

People seem to be under really strange misconception, 50% of the family money is/was theirs. what happens is he spends it or hides it so you don’t get the money.
Six months after my friend divorced her ex-husband, she walked away with 1 million. He bought a house for 6 million in cash that he hidden from the courts. So she did for everybody would do and went back to court and revealed that he had lied on the form E. The Judge basically called her a greedy bitch and told her she should be happy with what she got.
Female judge obviously.

@anonymousxoxo

Your post is confusing. But I'm not going to support attacks on SAHMs and suggesting they are the reason for the gender pay gap and lack of advancement.

I would hate to be a SAHM. I had brief periods between contracts at one point where I was mostly at home. I enjoyed it temporarily. But I knew I'd be working again. I'm not efficient or productive at home, compared to when I'm working. I need an 'outside world'.

It doesn't mean I'm critical of others' choices.

I just want women to make those choices sensibly & consider the implications for themselves.

We are married and therefore everything is 'joint' you can't just have your own savings and expect to keep them in the event of a divorce.

However - please women do NOT give up working.. keep your independence so if things to go pear shaped you have an income to support yourself.

women that give up working are crazy.

Exactly the same here. Male dominated industry and I'm the only woman on my team.

I love my job but it's also incredibly difficult because I'm a woman.

women that give up working are crazy

I'm not going to agree with this.

I would say: women who give up working without a plan for their own security are crazy.

I personally advocate having your own income. However I know many happily married women who don't work outside the home, and are happy with their choices.

It's not about imposing absolutes. It's about ensuring women have awareness of the implications of their choices and have a way to protect themselves.

Marry if you are likely to be the lower earner in your relationship, don't if you're going to earn more.

I don’t know how I feel about this. I see the sense it it but it’s a bit cynical. You would end up in a situation where only people who earn the same and are likely to earn the same throughout their working lives would get married.

We are telling our daughters not to move in/have children unless married, but not to marry if you are likely to be the higher earner. Are we telling our sons the same? Don’t marry if you will be the higher earner.

Never too late! Even a low paying job will protect you! I restarted my career in my 40s, I didn't think or expect I will ever earn good wage again, you will never know your luck, don't forget you will be contributing NI and workplace pension which will help your retirement.

From a logical point of view and removing any emotion or whatever I'd advise anyone who is the higher earner to not get married. That said as long as people know the implications of doing so (which lots don't seem to have considered or they assume they'll never divorce) then fair play to them and of course a considered decision is good. I would never recommend an unmarried man or woman give up working to stay at home with children through, never ever.

Way before I joined Mumsnet. A husband and wife friend of DH's mum moved from South Africa, very lovely young couple. She got pregnant aged 20 and dropped out of uni while he continued his mech engineering degree, masters etc. Got a great job, bought a nice house, got her a Merc. They had two little girls and all great going. Until he cheated with one of her friends, went back to SA and divorced her leaving her with next to nothing.

I saw a lady that looked like her working in a coffee shop only for the lady to cal out to me. Turns out he left her and as she had no qualifications that was pretty much what she could find. She's been working min wage jobs since and her ex continues to be a cheat. I was about 19 when this happened and I always tell this story to young girls/women. I swore to never ever get into that situation. DH and I have been together since teenagers so about 20 years but I hold dearly to my financial independence. I'll have to pay him if we were to divorce anyway.

Couldn’t agree more. I’m so glad I never married my son’s dad. I know for a fact he would have taken as much from me as possible had we been married. We entered the relationship with a huge difference in assets - I owned my own home which I had been paying off for years and had savings, whereas he had nothing. However when we split up he thought he was entitled to half of my house, car etc (we had been together approx 4.5 years and he lived in my house with me for maybe 3.5 years). Although the separation was an extremely stressful time (especially having a one year old child), having my own financial security was really empowering and gave me options. I can’t imagine how much more stressful it would have been had I not had that security - or even worse if I had been financially reliant on him.

They should teach it in schools up and down the land.

We do exactly the same and has worked for us for 10 years too 👏🏼

I love my job too and what I do. It's technical and suits me. My colleagues are nice though.

I didn't say they are the sole reason. Just they are contributing it. I blame men. They created the patriarchy. I am critical because it personally disadvantages me because I was born with a vagina at work. otherwise couldn't care less.

People need to find their own way. Of course, I wouldn't recommend women giving up financial independence for not a lot. But it can work out and often does. It worked out for me and many women I know. Some men are worth it and some lifestyles may necessitate it. You can't just judge everyone in a narrow context.