3 year old being taught to pray at nursery, aibu to not be comfortable with this?

[arobynw]

Hello fellow mums,

Been umming and erring over posting all weekend as religion is such a sensitive subject and I admit that because I don’t follow any religion (atheist), I’m worried I may unintentionally offend someone. If I do, I’m sorry! I’m happy to be educated!

My 3 year old son goes to an amazing nursery and has done since he was 11 months old. They follow an effective curriculum and he has grown and developed so much in their care.

Last week, he moved up to nursery school as he has just turned 3 years old. He has found the move very overwhelming but we expected it as it’s a big move. By Wednesday, we were sat down having a small tea together and I was sure I heard him say “need to say prayers” but that was it. On Thursday, we picked him up early as it was his birthday so we had a proper dinner all together. I had started eating and he told me “no no no no! You haven’t said prayers!” I was confused but asked him to say the prayers. His speech isn’t the clearest yet, but I definitely made out amen at the end.

I haven’t told him not to say prayers or shown to him that I’ve been uncomfortable, just thanked him and ate dinner.

I do not have a problem with people following religion, so long as it’s not forced on anyone who doesn’t wish to follow a religion. I am also fine with my son following a religion if he wishes, however I want him to have the ability to make that informed decision on his own when he is old enough to think for himself.

his nursery is not a CoE nursery and he’s never done prayers here previously so I was quite surprised that he is very clearly saying prayers now. If it was simply saying thanks for food etc I’d be ok with that, but there is definitely a religious theme to the prayers.

there are 24 kids in his room and I don’t want to be awkward and cause a stink or make things difficult for his incredible key workers, but I do feel uncomfortable as I feel like it’s being forced upon him.

is my lack of knowledge in this area the problem rather than what’s happening? Am I being unreasonable? What should I do?

thank you all

The Head really does make a difference. Another area where the Diocese should have zero involvement but often push for their preferred candidate.

It's not a great situation to be in, educationally.

@nonheme Did you even read my comment?

There are NO non-CofE primaries in my area. NONE!

Would you like me to home school or pimp myself out for extra cash for private?! Sell up and drag the whole family to another area? And if not, well, I don't deserve an opinion, by your reckoning?

It's NOT OK that thousands are in the position of only CofE schools to choose from and THAT is my point!!

Many years ago I enrolled my 3 children into the local Catholic School as it was practically across from where we lived plus they stated that they respected everyone’s faith/religion so I had stated to their teachers that I didn’t want them saying prayers or crossing themselves I was assured that it wasn’t a problem as there were a few children of different faiths at the school, a few weeks passed & I noticed that the kids were being a bit strange at meal times turns out they were waiting till I was leaving the room till saying grace & crossing themselves, I told them that they didn’t have to hide it from me as I was an open minded person they knew this, they said they were doing it as they headmaster told them that every child needs to say grace before a meal & cross themselves or they will go to hell for eternity, I told my kids oh no they won’t be going to hell but I’m going to raise hell in the morning, so when I dropped them off the following day I asked to speak to the headmaster & out he came with a superior look on his face & I politely said why did he tell my kids that they would be going to hell if they didn’t say grace & cross themselves, he said as thats what will happen, I stated that I had asked that my kids we’re not to cross themselves or say grace/prayers as I would be allowing them to pick their own faith when older he told me I obviously had a problem with the catholic religion so this school was probably not the best for them, I laughed & wiped that smile right off his face by telling him that my kids dad was a Roman Catholic so I obviously didn’t have that much of a problem with the Catholic faith but he is right this school wasnt right for them so I enrolled them into the other primary school & the kids were so much happier 2 other mothers withdrew their kids from that school also after I I withdrew my kids so I was the devil incarnate 😂 what’s even better my eldest is 30 doesn’t bother about religion, middle is 28 is Wiccan & my youngest is 27 and is a Mormon I stuck to my word & let my kids follow their own path for their faith I’m Protestant & went to support my son one Sunday he had already warned the Bishop don’t try to convert her as she will tell you where to go she has her own beliefs & she is only here to show me support & the bishop couldn’t have been any nicer to me

Parents can withdraw Dc from RE lessons. It’s so much more difficult when its prayers before lessons, seeing bible quotes everywhere and a noticeable change of ethos. I’m a firm believer in high quality education but no religious add ons. So few schools have spare places around here so if you don’t want the catchment one, there’s no way parents can easily remove Dc. I’ve no Dc at school any more and DDs actually attended a Methodist senior school. This was very light touch when compared to the religious overtones of our catchment CofE junior.

I'd have to put a stop to that.

That's a horrible thing to tell your child. Don't sent your child to catholic school if you don't want her to have a catholic education and you tell her the teachers are silly!? Awful parenting.

they said they were doing it as they headmaster told them that every child needs to say grace before a meal & cross themselves or they will go to hell for eternity

I don't believe this happened. Not even the strictest, most Conservative, most devout Catholic would believe that not blessing yourself or saying Grace would send anyone to Hell. * *

@Darkdiamond agree, I've worked in catholic schools for 15 years, went to catholic school as a child... never heard the word hell ever.

Schools as public bodies should be entirely secular, religious based schools just can't get inclusion right their bias is always inherent. It's ridiculous that public money can be spent on indoctrination and inaccurate learning.

So update following discussion with key worker.

it is nursery driven and down to the beliefs of the owner rather than any ofcom/educational requirement. They said the prayer which overall was quite nice, until it ended with “thank you god, amen”. His key worker is going to have a discussion with the owner to see what our options are as they do make amendments for children who practice other religions. So a follow up discussion will be had. They were understanding of our concerns.

dh and I have already agreed that we won’t segregate, and will work towards explaining that we do things differently at home. We did like the prayer and will start doing it at home but thank mummy/daddy (whoever has cooked) instead of god.

thanks again for the advice from everyone.

Ask politely - maybe say your son has said this, but it isn’t clear what is going on at nursery school. It is fine to want to know, but remember that they are allowed to have grace before meals even if they aren’t an overtly religious setting, so you may make his experience negative if you choose to remove him from that while the other children participate.

Apologies -looks like you did just that.

As long as the nursery makes it clear in their information that they say grace before meals and/or have an element of Christian teaching then that is fine to me, doing it without pre informing parents at the point they register isn't on. As for schools, unless they are voluntary controlled schools they make arrangements for those who wish to skip religious education but it tends to be broad all world religions based with a bit more focus on Christmas, but at voluntary controlled schools (they are the schools run by various religions, predominantly c of e and catholic but theres Muslim, Hindu and Jewish) if you choose that school it seems odd to then pull them from lessons which will be far more religious than mainstream schools!

ayeah because they're selective, not because they say prayers.

I worked in a local primary for a while and the reception children did a lunchtime prayer before . LA schools legally had to follow a mainly Christian basis (not sure if thats now the case) ie assemblies etc, but reception children didn't do assemblies so I assumed this was 'covering that part of the curriculum'.
Not heard of it recently.

ODFOD!!!

And a well deserved one, at that!

So the past 5 schools I’ve worked in have been breaking the rules! Unless a secondary school is of a religious domination, there is very little chance that any religious moments occur throughout the day. I’d be very cross if it happened.

I had a non religious colleague many years ago who was bewildered by her 3 year old dd coming home, flinging herself on the ground and throwing a scarf down, muttering something incomprehensible. She eventually realised her Muslim mil was teaching her the relevant prayers. She thought it was sweet!

Agree. Catholics believe Hell is simply the absence of Love (given that God is Love)
So no, not crossing oneself would not mean you get sent to Hell. Equally we also believe in Purgatory so it's not a straight to Hell with anyone attitude.

In state schools it’s an “act of worship that’s broadly Christian”. Many schools cover something relevant in assembly but it’s often very loosely Christian and definitely includes other religions . Many do ignore it though. Lots of LAs do give excellent guidance on this aspect of school life.

In this case it’s a private nursery so the owner has decided on policy. I would prefer it to be the professional in charge.

@GintyMarlowsShinyHair

I think the best interpretation of the law IMHO was a school origionally founded by quakers. The 'assembly' had the children walk in in silence, sit around the edges of the room and sit in silence for 5 mins.

They could pray if they wanted, or think about their maths test or just be bored.

After the silence the teacher read out any notices and the school started its day proper.

Even though it was technically a Quaker ministry it seemed inclusive and a good way to start the day.

@sashh Have you been to a Quaker meeting house? That’s exactly what Quakers do. Meeting houses have seats in a square and no “leader” taking prayers. More of a calm inner reflection which feels mature in this day and age. I thought it had a lot to recommend it too. Although I cannot see lots of Dc sitting still for 5 mins!