Page 2 | 3 year old being taught to pray at nursery, aibu to not be comfortable with this?

arobynw · 2023-08-07T07:44:12+00:00

Hello fellow mums, Been umming and erring over posting all weekend as religion is such a sensitive subject and I admit that because I don’t follow any religion (atheist), I’m worried I may unintentionally offend someone. If I do, I’m sorry! I’m happy to be educated! My 3 year old son goes to an amazing nursery and has done since he was 11 months old. They follow an effective curriculum and he has grown and developed so much in their care. Last week, he moved up to nursery school as he has just turned 3 years old. He has found the move very overwhelming but we expected it as it’s a big move. By Wednesday, we were sat down having a small tea together and I was sure I heard him say “need to say prayers” but that was it. On Thursday, we picked him up early as it was his birthday so we had a proper dinner all together. I had started eating and he told me “no no no no! You haven’t said prayers!” I was confused but asked him to say the prayers. His speech isn’t the clearest yet, but I definitely made out amen at the end. I haven’t told him not to say prayers or shown to him that I’ve been uncomfortable, just thanked him and ate dinner. I do not have a problem with people following religion, so long as it’s not forced on anyone who doesn’t wish to follow a religion. I am also fine with my son following a religion if he wishes, however I want him to have the ability to make that informed decision on his own when he is old enough to think for himself. his nursery is not a CoE nursery and he’s never done prayers here previously so I was quite surprised that he is very clearly saying prayers now. If it was simply saying thanks for food etc I’d be ok with that, but there is definitely a religious theme to the prayers. there are 24 kids in his room and I don’t want to be awkward and cause a stink or make things difficult for his incredible key workers, but I do feel uncomfortable as I feel like it’s being forced upon him. is my lack of knowledge in this area the problem rather than what’s happening? Am I being unreasonable? What should I do? thank you all

Sugargliderwombat · 07/08/2023 09:10

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

It's a Catholic school and you're teaching your child that people who are religious are stupid ?

ClinkyWotsit · 07/08/2023 09:14

Find out more info from the nursery directly before you make a decision about how you’re going to tackle it. Personally, just me, only my opinion? I’d not be that fussed, although I’d take a PP’s suggestion of keeping it as something they do in nursery, not at home.

I went to a C of E school, the daily prayers stuck until I went to a non-C of E secondary school then I forgot all about them. I’m assuming when DD goes to the local (very convenient, well rated, where her friends will go) C of E primary, she won’t necessarily come out of it having firmly found her faith.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 07/08/2023 09:15

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

So it's a lovely,good quality school but you're telling your DD to dismiss all her teachers as silly. Sure, that's going to go well.

Original poster

arobynw · 07/08/2023 09:16

Not a chat bot, real human being who didn’t grow up in the UK so not sure what the “norm” is within the UK educational system.
Irrespective of whether I’m speaking to someone on the internet or face to face, if it’s about a topic I don’t have much knowledge about, I will take the steps necessary to understand what I need to before jumping in and discussing appropriately and confidently. I would never wish to upset someone because of something I have said or done naively. My husband does point out I can be too polite at times, that’s the Canadian in me :)

thanks for your input!

OP posts:

tennesseewhiskey1 · 07/08/2023 09:19

Are you sure its the nursery? My child was taught 'prayers' by a friend whose family were religious.

CoachBeardsJane · 07/08/2023 09:19

Maybe it's another child saying it not the staff? Don't jump straight to 'oh my child is being indoctrinated at 3 years old that's it I'm going to complain'

I mean your other option is to remove him immediately from their care, find a new nursery and care for your child yourself whilst you find one but you probably don't want to do that

Clefable · 07/08/2023 09:19

Needmorelego · 07/08/2023 08:49

Simple thing is to just ask the nursery who is introducing the prayer. It could be another child who does it at home so is the one telling the other children who happen to be sat near them “we have to say our prayer” and the kids copy.

Yep, I would check where it's coming from first. DD1 came home once calling us a stinky poopoo, and that certainly wasn't from nursery staff

Merrymaking · 07/08/2023 09:20

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

🤔 so you like the school. They give your child a good education. But you tell your daughter that her teacher is silly and believes in fairy tales. 🤔 Great parenting on your part then. I bet you’re very pleased. 🙄

tennesseewhiskey1 · 07/08/2023 09:21

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

This sounds bonkers?!!! You tell your child all her teachers are liars, instead of telling her everyone can believe in whatever faith they want?!!?!

Crispyperifries · 07/08/2023 09:21

I cant imagine it’s the nursery pushing this I would say it’s another child doing it or a member of staff and your little one is copying.

Original poster

arobynw · 07/08/2023 09:22

Wow loads of replies so quickly. Thank you everyone. I feel much more confident to have a constructive conversation with his key worker when I pick him up later.

a couple of you seemed to think I’m a chat bot, I now feel ancient as I’ve never even heard of a chat bot before 🤣 I can assure you all, I am a real human being, but clearly need to brush up on how I talk on the ol’ internet.

thank you all, each of you have been very helpful!

OP posts:

TallulahBetty · 07/08/2023 09:22

Winterscomingagain · 07/08/2023 08:50

Is it possible that they say grace at the nursery.If that's the case you could choose a simple non religious phrase before meals.I'm always amused at how the normal grace thanks God for the food but never thanks the person who made it.

Yes, this. See also - people who praise god for saving their lives, rather than the medical staff. Gah

Philandbill · 07/08/2023 09:23

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

Would you be equally disrespectful to people of other faiths or do you save your scorn for Christianity?

Random789 · 07/08/2023 09:24

It really really wouldn't bother me. No beliefs are being forced on him. It is no more meaningful to him than any of the other little songs, poems, etc that children associate with the rhythms of their day at nursery and in early school years.
A lot of the little routines of 'prayer' have a function that is completely generaliseable to secular ways of thinking. For example, a prayer before meals can be regarded as a gratitude practice (much promoted these days as a mental health aid), or as a way of focusing on respect for the natural environment (growing crops etc). So what if it does mention god. He will just be a rhyme character like Miss Polly or Old MacDonald.
It doesn't really matter what ideas the nursery staff bring to it. It will still be creating mental resources for your child, in just same way as (say) any old rhyme that helps him learn the months of the year or whatever.
It seems incredibly anxious and overprotective to expect that a child would be protected from exposure to a wide range of practices and beliefs that may include some that you don't share. There are going to be many other ideas that may not be relevant for him. Eg in my part of the country a huge deal is made about local football teams and events. It doesn't mean that anything is forced on him. It is just part of the transition from family life (where there is a relatively small and cohesive range of values, beliefs, paractices) into a wider community (where there is variety, diversity, novelty for the children to observe and learn about.

Clefable · 07/08/2023 09:24

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

Yeah don't do that. Your approach is shite.

What you could have done instead is say that some people believe X and Y but that you believe Z, instead of calling people liars and being offensive about others' religious beliefs.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 07/08/2023 09:25

that’s the Canadian in me :)

That explains it.😬

Clefable · 07/08/2023 09:26

And exposure to other religions is absolutely fine and a good thing. Mandating that a child take part or practice a religious behaviour is not. But I believe all schools and early years settings should be entirely secular in the first place.

PuttingDownRoots · 07/08/2023 09:26

@Piranhaha you send your kids to a school funded by the Catholic Church... and are surprised they teach them the Catholic religion?

Darkdiamond · 07/08/2023 09:28

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

If my children had a teacher who I thought was 'silly', I would be changing schools. You're teaching your child that her teacher is silly because she has different beliefs to you?

I am a Christian myself but raise my children to understand that everyone has different beliefs; some believe in other faith systems, some don't believe in anything but that everyone is entitled to their own. This will be for my children to explore and make up their own mind as they grow up.

Nowhere in my rhetoric do I tell my kids to basically not respect people who have differing opinions and beliefs. The world is full of people with differing backgrounds, religions, cultures and belief systems, some ancient and rooted in deep philosophical thinking and intricate traditions. As a Christian I disagree with the theology of a lot of them, but would never dream of teaching my children that people with views that are different to mine are 'silly'.

loislovesstewie · 07/08/2023 09:28

Ask the nursery what's going on. I'm also an atheist, I told my 2 early on that people were entitled to believe or not believe. I told them we [ DH and me] didn't. Also that they, DC, didn't have to join in.So at prayers they could sit quietly.My youngest decided at 6 years old that he didn't believe, and we left it at that.

AnSolas · 07/08/2023 09:29

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

You sent your child to a lovely Catholic school and expect them to change to your religion.

FYI That's not how that works

Elphame · 07/08/2023 09:29

We just dealt with something similar by saying that we don’t do that sort of thing at home.

It can be quite hard work keeping the indoctrination of children into Christianity to a minimum when your only choice is the local C of E state school. Luckily we were able to make a transfer into a much better rated and secular school part way through primary years and then went private.

Darkdiamond · 07/08/2023 09:30

loislovesstewie · 07/08/2023 09:28

Ask the nursery what's going on. I'm also an atheist, I told my 2 early on that people were entitled to believe or not believe. I told them we [ DH and me] didn't. Also that they, DC, didn't have to join in.So at prayers they could sit quietly.My youngest decided at 6 years old that he didn't believe, and we left it at that.

A normal and appropriate attitude.

Caffeineislife · 07/08/2023 09:30

I too would say to DC it's something you do at nursery, not at home. Ask the nursery if they do prayers at lunchtime or if it is another child. Children at 3 can be really bossy and it may be that another child has strict prayers at meal times at home and is role playing that at school.

Most schools in England do teach a broad exposure to Christianity and one of the ways to do this is through prayers at meal times and one singing assembly a week, a local church visit a few times a year/ visit by the vicar, harvest festival etc. Near enough any school you send your DC to will have some elements of Christian faith.

As for the parent with DC at Catholic school - you chose the school. You knew it was Catholic and Catholic schools generally are more religion focused. Teaching your DC that all the teachers are silly is just asking for trouble (if you end up with a child who disagrees with the teacher and they parrot back at the teacher "well my mum thinks you are silly" what will you say then when you are in front of the teacher) and is not respectful to them. Also not all Catholic schools have Catholic teachers - whilst they do prefer a teacher to have a Catholic faith they can show discretion and many do have teaching staff who are not Catholic or even strictly Catholic. The days of nuns teaching in Catholic schools are pretty much over. If it bothers you, move them.

Maray1967 · 07/08/2023 09:30

Piranhaha · 07/08/2023 09:09

Unfortunately Christian religion is one of the things that UK schools tend to push on kids, there’s nothing you can do to stop them. My DC goes to a lovely Catholic school but we are atheists. They do tend to push the religion thing on kids of all religions, and they have Muslims, Jews and Jehovahs Witnesses etc in the class too. But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend. So I just tell her it’s all lies and her teacher is silly because she believes in fairy tales. I think this approach is less damaging than moving her to a poor quality school that doesn’t have a religious focus.

Seriously?? You tell your DC that the school ethos is lies and the teacher is silly?

I taught mine to respect the different religious tradition at the school I chose. We don’t follow it and they have no interest in any religion now but I didn’t let them rubbish it let alone encourage them to.