3 year old being taught to pray at nursery, aibu to not be comfortable with this?

[arobynw]

Hello fellow mums,

Been umming and erring over posting all weekend as religion is such a sensitive subject and I admit that because I don’t follow any religion (atheist), I’m worried I may unintentionally offend someone. If I do, I’m sorry! I’m happy to be educated!

My 3 year old son goes to an amazing nursery and has done since he was 11 months old. They follow an effective curriculum and he has grown and developed so much in their care.

Last week, he moved up to nursery school as he has just turned 3 years old. He has found the move very overwhelming but we expected it as it’s a big move. By Wednesday, we were sat down having a small tea together and I was sure I heard him say “need to say prayers” but that was it. On Thursday, we picked him up early as it was his birthday so we had a proper dinner all together. I had started eating and he told me “no no no no! You haven’t said prayers!” I was confused but asked him to say the prayers. His speech isn’t the clearest yet, but I definitely made out amen at the end.

I haven’t told him not to say prayers or shown to him that I’ve been uncomfortable, just thanked him and ate dinner.

I do not have a problem with people following religion, so long as it’s not forced on anyone who doesn’t wish to follow a religion. I am also fine with my son following a religion if he wishes, however I want him to have the ability to make that informed decision on his own when he is old enough to think for himself.

his nursery is not a CoE nursery and he’s never done prayers here previously so I was quite surprised that he is very clearly saying prayers now. If it was simply saying thanks for food etc I’d be ok with that, but there is definitely a religious theme to the prayers.

there are 24 kids in his room and I don’t want to be awkward and cause a stink or make things difficult for his incredible key workers, but I do feel uncomfortable as I feel like it’s being forced upon him.

is my lack of knowledge in this area the problem rather than what’s happening? Am I being unreasonable? What should I do?

thank you all

OP, definitely query it with the nursery. Really good point PPs have made about it potentially being another kid. I understand others may not see it as a big thing, but I’m under the impression that saying Grace is thanking god for the food. As an atheist (from a Jewish family), I wouldn’t want my children thanking what I believe to be a fictional character for a meal I have worked to pay for.

There is also a discussion on here about faith schools and catchment etc. It might be more flexible in some areas but in my area I’m certainly aware of neighbours who were not able to get their children into their top 3 choices of school due to being oversubscribed, so it is quite possible a child may end up in a faith school that is not the choice of the parent.

Regardless of religious prayer/assembley etc, the school system is out of touch with current society. The 2021 census said that less than half the population identifies as a Christian denomination. The next highest response was ‘no religion’. My Jewish dad quite happily withdrew me from school for any occasion eg christmas/harvest festival that took place in churches and involed prayer.

TBF the child is 3 that insistance is on par with the rule of having to pore out the magic tea at a dolly party.

This would not sit right with me. It is bad enough that our taxes pay for religiously-aligned schools; but a nursery that you are paying for directly......

This is wrong!

Yeah, there’s no separation between church and state in the UK so it’s all a bit blurry. Kids get targeted by the church and then it turns out we are one of the least religious countries in the world.

I'm Ecumenical but would class as CofE... I'm the only non catholic in my family (although most are lapsed Catholics).

DH is lapsed Methodist (more agnostic, he was a baby and didn't get a say)

Oldest DS chose to be baptized Catholic, claims in teen grunts that hes agnostic but chooses to spend a LOT of time hanging out at a local Methodist church.

My younger kids attend a religious school but we don't really attended any churches (I don't really get what having to drag the kids out at 8am to listen to bible stories has to do with personal faith).

On of my old best friends was an ex-Jehovah's Witness.

I see zero issue... we allow our kids to choose themselves, usually when they are 8 and they can still grow and change their mind. Most people do change over time regardless of how they are raised or baptized.

I'd nudge DS into thanking the person who actually prepared the food.
I think, even if it is nursery doing this it's also worth understanding the wider context.

My DC went to a village nursery which was lightly linked to the church as part of the community. This meant the children attended church over the road at Christmas & end of summer term, made various decorations for festivals of all the main religions and got to display their artwork at the church fete. I don't have a religion, but thought it was a good way for the DC to learn that some people have faith and that everyone is part of a bigger community.

Not acceptable if not advised and consented in advance and I wouldn't expect it to happen in a non-denominational nursery. In a nursery linked to a denominational state school, it should be made clear to you that you have the right to remove your child from collective worship and how you do this. For a private denominational nursery, I don't know the rules.

And no-one has the right not to be offended. In this case when the intention is to assert or question your own equally valid rights and it's not put in an obviously derogatory way. So you can stop apologising🙂

I started at a non religious first school in 1980. We had to sing "Thank you for the world so sweet, thank you for the food we eat, thank you for the birds that sing, thank you God for everything. Amen" every lunchtime until I left for middle school!

We did too. I expect that your school, along with mine, were non-denominational schools in the English system, which were doing much more of the (still legally required) Christianity-based collective worship than (most) do now. Because as another PP said, it's woefully out of date. Most non-denominational schools recognise this and both scale it back and broaden it out. Some schools break the law and don't do it at all.

I agree with another PP who explained that a faith-based school is not always the parent's first choice or choice at all. As well as school places issues, it can also be for other valid reasons such as transport to school, suitable facilities for a child with a disability, wraparound care, it being the community village school as well as a C of E primary, etc. It's not the completely free choice in all areas that some people think it is.

Just to clarify, it's not about dragging them out of bed to hear about Bible stories. To put it so bluntly kind of sounds disrespectful though I realise that may not have been your intention, hopefully not anyway.
For Catholics the beauty of mass is why we go. It's the meeting of heaven and earth, the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist and there's a really clear and logical order to the Mass. I can respect anyone's choice of faith or lack of faith as they so wish, just wanted to clarify it's it simply dragging the family out to listen to stories lol. 🙂

OP says it's not a Church nursery.

*it's not, not it's is 😄

yeh I wouldn't be happy either. Speak to the nursery and state that you don't want your child partaking in any prayers.

I can't believe how many posters have missed these words at the beginning of one paragraph in the OP

"his nursery is not a CoE nursery"

I agree. My point is that someone has told him that we must pray. He's learned and accepted that and now believes that his family must do the same.

@nonheme "What if the school was founded by and is still part funded by Christians?
Practising is a bit far fetched. Just go to school and ask your child to be excluded from daily prayers."

This happens in schools with not church funding at all. And anyway-the contribution of the Church to is more underwhelming than many people think!
Finally, why should my child miss out on part of the life of their NON FAITH school because I don't want them practising a faith they don't follow?

I agree with @CurlewKate ie the difference between being taught a religion or about religion. As long it is not indoctrination I think learning about the Bible and other religions is so helpful for other subjects - eg Eng. Lit , Phililospy etc . How many hours per week - different matter. A short grace I would give a bye to. & I do get it is not a CoE nursery

I know this is going slightly off topic sorry but this thread has given me some new knowledge.
I never realised that in England you could end up in a faith school so easily- as in you could end up there simply cos it's your catchment school? Sorry if I'm not understanding it properly.
It seems completely wrong for both sides of the coin. Unfair to families who do not follow the faith but also unfair to the families who choose the faith to give the religiously rounded education faith based schooling gives.
I'm in Scotland and while there are some non-Catholic children in our Catholic schools, by and large the pupils are there because their families are Catholic and want the faith based education. It isn't easy to get into Catholic schools without a baptismal certificate, and for good reason. It seems so confusing to send them there purely cos it's the catchment school and give parents no choice in the matter.
No wonder there's so much animosity to Catholicism. But it sounds like an issue with the English schools admission system rather than faith itself.
Every parent should be able to choose the school that feels right for their child/family.

I hate that its forced upon the children. My local primary and its a good school is CofE. My local high school is Catholic. My kids have grown up in this situation. I’ve encouraged them to question what they are being taught (as do most of their classmates). Question the teachers who most of the time cannot come up with an answer. Look up The Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster

@CustardySergeant reading comprehension on this site is, in general, dire.

You'd think the nursery feedback would have mentioned that they have been 'teaching' or talking about praying, or that, like others have suggested, another child had started and I can only assume your son would have displayed the same keenness to take part at nursery and that's something they'd want to feedback too. So I'd query the lack of communication.

It also sounds like you are assuming it's come from nursery, as that's the only place he could have picked it up. Let's hope that's the case and he's not some religious prophecy 🤣

As a middle of the road protestant, sometimes Methodist, Baptist or CoE Christian depending on the Minister or Vicar I would be pleased if it was mainstream and wary in case it was a fringe Charismatic or Gospel sect. Indoctrination is very bad always.

I would not like this at all if it comes from the school. Definitely make polite enquiries. I work in a pre school where the overwhelming majority is Catholic but with some Muslim and Hindu, almost no non practicing families. We steer clear of any kind of religious talk and would not think its appropriate even though most kids will be going onwards to a Catholic school. Prayers have no place in schools IMO, and I am someone who is not against organised religion at all.

I do find it strange that so many parents say "We'll leave DC to make their own mind up and don't want religion forced option then" but then actively go out of their way to ensure all religion is kept from DC. And parents who say "Teacher is telling lies" or "Teacher is silly and believes a fairy story".... Well that isn't presenting your child with a balanced viewpoint to make up their own mind. Surely that's forcing atheism on them? By all means bring your child up firmly following your own views and beliefs but don't say "We're letting them choose for themselves" when you actually mean "We're making sure they're never exposed to religion".

According to our recent Outstanding diocese inspection, we meet the minimum requirement of teaching Religious Education- which is an hour a day. This hour includes collective worship times.
FWIW Ofsted also rate my school outstanding. 😊