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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

3 year old being taught to pray at nursery, aibu to not be comfortable with this?

273 replies

arobynw · 07/08/2023 08:44

Hello fellow mums,

Been umming and erring over posting all weekend as religion is such a sensitive subject and I admit that because I don’t follow any religion (atheist), I’m worried I may unintentionally offend someone. If I do, I’m sorry! I’m happy to be educated!

My 3 year old son goes to an amazing nursery and has done since he was 11 months old. They follow an effective curriculum and he has grown and developed so much in their care.

Last week, he moved up to nursery school as he has just turned 3 years old. He has found the move very overwhelming but we expected it as it’s a big move. By Wednesday, we were sat down having a small tea together and I was sure I heard him say “need to say prayers” but that was it. On Thursday, we picked him up early as it was his birthday so we had a proper dinner all together. I had started eating and he told me “no no no no! You haven’t said prayers!” I was confused but asked him to say the prayers. His speech isn’t the clearest yet, but I definitely made out amen at the end.

I haven’t told him not to say prayers or shown to him that I’ve been uncomfortable, just thanked him and ate dinner.

I do not have a problem with people following religion, so long as it’s not forced on anyone who doesn’t wish to follow a religion. I am also fine with my son following a religion if he wishes, however I want him to have the ability to make that informed decision on his own when he is old enough to think for himself.

his nursery is not a CoE nursery and he’s never done prayers here previously so I was quite surprised that he is very clearly saying prayers now. If it was simply saying thanks for food etc I’d be ok with that, but there is definitely a religious theme to the prayers.

there are 24 kids in his room and I don’t want to be awkward and cause a stink or make things difficult for his incredible key workers, but I do feel uncomfortable as I feel like it’s being forced upon him.

is my lack of knowledge in this area the problem rather than what’s happening? Am I being unreasonable? What should I do?

thank you all

OP posts:
ANiceBigCupOfTea · 07/08/2023 11:00

Just speak to the staff and express your concerns.

queenMab99 · 07/08/2023 11:01

As this thread seems to be expanding its reach, I would like to add that I would object to my grand children being taught that God chose our royal family and aristocracy to have any hand in ruling over us. I think if he did exist, he would have had more sense!

Inkypot · 07/08/2023 11:04

queenMab99 · 07/08/2023 11:01

As this thread seems to be expanding its reach, I would like to add that I would object to my grand children being taught that God chose our royal family and aristocracy to have any hand in ruling over us. I think if he did exist, he would have had more sense!

I agree with you there 😄

Lifeinlists · 07/08/2023 11:04

@CurlewKate

It may be a statutory requirement as far as statutes go but it doesn't happen in most schools. Where assemblies even happen they are usually taken up with more parochial matters.
The DfE is fine with it. How would you enforce it anyway?

nonheme · 07/08/2023 11:04

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

YourCrackersMiLord · 07/08/2023 11:04

wheatfield6 · 07/08/2023 10:58

Playing devil's advocate here....

He seems to enjoy saying grace, seeing as he's so insistent on doing it, and it appears to be a part of his nursery routine that he's really keen on engaging with. By stopping him, aren't you impeding on his freedom of belief? Children at that age are often incredibly open to the idea of God and often really enjoy praying. I think that shutting him down at home and not allowing him to pray out loud is kind of dictatorial and oppressive.

In the same way you should never force a child to pray, I don't think you should ban them from praying either.

I kinda agree with this.

Each to their own, but I suspect the long term impact of young children saying grace before a meal, is nil with regards to their longer term likelihood (or not) of choosing to follow a religion.

Therefore, no harm, no foul - in my eyes.

Merrymaking · 07/08/2023 11:05

TizerorFizz · 07/08/2023 09:58

Primary schools must teach RE, but it’s never ever 5 hours a week. Obviously out of 25 or less hours, that would be utterly ludicrous. The agreed curriculum is a joint agreement between religious leaders in the area and the school providers. Parents can withdraw Dc from these lessons so I can assure everyone, it won’t be 5 hours a week in the uk. 1 lesson once a week more likely!

As this is a nursery school, is it attached to a primary school? Of what character is the primary school? All primary schools must have a daily act of worship but don’t have to teach RE in nursery or EY. So it’s reasonable to politely enquire where Grace is coming from. Also, if part of a primary school, the nursery will be inspected with the primary. So maybe this practice is embedded at the primary? If it’s a separate nursery, I’m surprised and would ask about it. They should also make the curriculum and ethos available to parents.

Another point: CofE snd Catholic schools are not funded by these religions. They might own the buildings (or not) but they do not pay the staff or pay for anything else. School budgets for these schools come from the same source as other schools, taxation. They are schools that are religious in character and you have to accept that if you go to one. Some parents have no choice, but if you have chosen the school, it’s poor not to support it fully.

I teach in a Catholic school and we must dedicate the same amount of time spent on teaching Maths and English, on Religious Education. This equates to 5 hours a week.

AnSolas · 07/08/2023 11:05

Anyotherdude · 07/08/2023 10:42

Thank you, God, for the food you gave,
While in the kitchen, Mother did slave
To turn it into something edible.
Thank God for Mother, she’s incredible!

Thank you, God, for Auntie’s food,
She cooks as if she’s burning wood!
From the colour of the smoking, you can tell
Who will be the next new Pope, as well!

Show quote history

😁😁😀

Growlybear83 · 07/08/2023 11:06

Isitthathardtobekind · 07/08/2023 10:45

@floribunda18 again, i’m not sure where you are but I’ve worked in 3 community schools and they never had a daily act of Christian worship.

Community schools are not required to hold an act of Christian worship - they are required to hold a daily act of collective worship which should be of a broadly Christian character, which is very different and can be interpreted very liberally.

I work for several community schools in inner London and none of them hold assemblies which promote Christianity - they all focus on values such as respect, tolerance, kindness etc which are common to many religions.

FictionalCharacter · 07/08/2023 11:06

Yanbu and I'd be asking the nursery about it. DH and I would not have been at all pleased about a nursery age child telling us we had to pray at home! We'd have told him we don't pray, not gone along with it. If it's a member of nursery staff encouraging this because of their personal beliefs, they need to stop. They don't have any right to do that.

A 3 year old can have no idea what it means anyway.

nonheme · 07/08/2023 11:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 07/08/2023 11:07

Clefable · 07/08/2023 09:26

And exposure to other religions is absolutely fine and a good thing. Mandating that a child take part or practice a religious behaviour is not. But I believe all schools and early years settings should be entirely secular in the first place.

Exactly this, and another vote for speaking to the nursery
For me the point that it's not a religiously based one is key and I'd want to know where this was coming from

nonheme · 07/08/2023 11:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 07/08/2023 11:11

FictionalCharacter · 07/08/2023 11:06

Yanbu and I'd be asking the nursery about it. DH and I would not have been at all pleased about a nursery age child telling us we had to pray at home! We'd have told him we don't pray, not gone along with it. If it's a member of nursery staff encouraging this because of their personal beliefs, they need to stop. They don't have any right to do that.

A 3 year old can have no idea what it means anyway.

DD went to a Catholic school , did Mass , First Holy Communion etc and she never came home saying she HAS to pray at home, or ever did it.

AuntMarch · 07/08/2023 11:12

Ugh, my reply disappeared!

My child went to a churchy playgroup with the childminder and came home singing a song about God.. he just liked the song, it didn't mean he "believed". I just tell him some people believe in a God, I don't, but he can decide for himself when he's older.

I would want to know the context for sure though. Even in the Catholic school I worked in, prayers were prefaced by "you can either join in my prayer or have a moments quiet reflection for yourself".

Original poster
arobynw · 07/08/2023 11:17

MsBIobby · 07/08/2023 10:27

Not a chat bot, real human being who didn’t grow up in the UK so not sure what the “norm” is within the UK educational system.

Your Op seriously reads like an AI bot 🤖

Hello.... fellow...

Mums

Lesson learned 🤣

OP posts:
nonheme · 07/08/2023 11:29

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 07/08/2023 11:31

If it’s a C of E or Catholic nursery, I don’t see that it’s reasonable to object - maybe you should send your dc to another.

Though having said that, my Gdcs attended a C of E nursery/pre school that was attached to the (excellent) C of E primary they now attend, and I’ve never heard that grace before meals is a thing. And I’m sure I’d have heard if it was.

I dare say some such schools are more religiously inclined than others, though.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 07/08/2023 11:35

We did this grace each day:

'Thank you for the world so sweet.
Thank you for the food we eat.
Thank you for the birds that sing.
Thank you, God, for everything.
Amen'

I didn't mind it and am still an atheist...

CurlewKate · 07/08/2023 11:35

@nonheme "This! I'm not sure why people panic over such minor things."

I'm not panicking. Nobody is panicking. Some of us don't want our children practicing a religion at a tax payer funded school that we do not believe in at home. Simple as that.
Maybe it might be easier for Christians to understand if they think about their children being expected being expected to follow Islamic practices at a tax payer funded school.

StaunchMomma · 07/08/2023 11:39

A few posters being really flippant about 'moving schools' if you don't agree with the 'school ethos'. Easy to say but for many of us, especially in rural areas, the only choices are CofE schools unless we can afford private!

Many of us are forced to send our kids to these schools and although I'd stop short of telling my DS his teachers are 'silly' for believing in any religion, I'm also not going to stand by and watch my child be indoctrinated.

So yes, we talk about the things he learns at school and we explain that at home we won't be doing any of the practices he has put upon him daily and that he has a choice of many religions or none.

I also doubt that many of his teachers are religious anyway - at least some of them have probably just said they are to get the job!

Unfortunately, the local diocese keeps quite a firm grip on the schools in the area and do Ofsted style spot checks to see if enough 'worship' is being done. They also pressure schools to include lots of Bible teachings in general class work.

Frustrating, to say the least, but as I said, we have NO CHOICE but to use these schools!

TizerorFizz · 07/08/2023 11:39

@Merrymaking I suggest you have a look at the governments curriculum requirements. There is NO requirement for 5 hours a week RE! It’s utterly bonkers. Hopefully ofsted will tell you so. One great reason to avoid overly religious schools if this is the diet. The guidelines on the act of worship each day can be interpreted very widely. Thank goodness many schools do. I would strongly suggest any parent avoids a school with 5 hours of formal RE lessons each week.

FictionalCharacter · 07/08/2023 11:47

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 07/08/2023 11:11

DD went to a Catholic school , did Mass , First Holy Communion etc and she never came home saying she HAS to pray at home, or ever did it.

Show quote history

Which is what this 3 year old is doing, so someone at nursery has taught him it's mandatory

I had started eating and he told me “no no no no! You haven’t said prayers!”

TizerorFizz · 07/08/2023 11:48

@StaunchMomma I agree with what you say. My DD went to the local CofE Controlled junior. Everything was light touch and fine for us. No choice for most parents who wouldn’t have got in elsewhere in y3 and other schools were CofE anyway. New head now and: religious quotes around the school, prayers before lessons and a very strong religious character. I find it appalling and it’s not even an Aided school! So we would now pay to escape it. Has all this improved the standards there? No. Are parents unhappy? Many are. However when they have Dc in the adjoining popular community infants school, trying to move Dc at junior is a nightmare. It is close to brainwashing.

Furrydogmum · 07/08/2023 11:49

I started at a non religious first school in 1980. We had to sing "Thank you for the world so sweet, thank you for the food we eat, thank you for the birds that sing, thank you God for everything. Amen" every lunchtime until I left for middle school! Completely forgot til you started this thread.
If you're happy to let them do it at nursery, I would tell my child we don't have to do it at every meal, presumably they haven't asked to do it at breakfast, so they can just do it at nursery..