3 year old being taught to pray at nursery, aibu to not be comfortable with this?

[arobynw]

Hello fellow mums,

Been umming and erring over posting all weekend as religion is such a sensitive subject and I admit that because I don’t follow any religion (atheist), I’m worried I may unintentionally offend someone. If I do, I’m sorry! I’m happy to be educated!

My 3 year old son goes to an amazing nursery and has done since he was 11 months old. They follow an effective curriculum and he has grown and developed so much in their care.

Last week, he moved up to nursery school as he has just turned 3 years old. He has found the move very overwhelming but we expected it as it’s a big move. By Wednesday, we were sat down having a small tea together and I was sure I heard him say “need to say prayers” but that was it. On Thursday, we picked him up early as it was his birthday so we had a proper dinner all together. I had started eating and he told me “no no no no! You haven’t said prayers!” I was confused but asked him to say the prayers. His speech isn’t the clearest yet, but I definitely made out amen at the end.

I haven’t told him not to say prayers or shown to him that I’ve been uncomfortable, just thanked him and ate dinner.

I do not have a problem with people following religion, so long as it’s not forced on anyone who doesn’t wish to follow a religion. I am also fine with my son following a religion if he wishes, however I want him to have the ability to make that informed decision on his own when he is old enough to think for himself.

his nursery is not a CoE nursery and he’s never done prayers here previously so I was quite surprised that he is very clearly saying prayers now. If it was simply saying thanks for food etc I’d be ok with that, but there is definitely a religious theme to the prayers.

there are 24 kids in his room and I don’t want to be awkward and cause a stink or make things difficult for his incredible key workers, but I do feel uncomfortable as I feel like it’s being forced upon him.

is my lack of knowledge in this area the problem rather than what’s happening? Am I being unreasonable? What should I do?

thank you all

But I don’t see why my DC should have to go to a lower quality school just because we don’t have Christian beliefs, it’s a state funded school and she’s entitled to attend.

That's up to you but I've taught in a Catholic school, an outstanding Catholic School according to OFSTED but as RE was a core subject it had to be taught for five hours a week, the same as English and Maths. Leaving fifty minutes a day for science, music, PHSE, history, geography IT and PE.

So in reality RE was shoehorned into everything else we did.

That's not something I would choose for my own child.

I think it's very difficult to avoid any religious influence in education in the UK, whatever your views on that. We're in NI so things might be slightly different, but our DD also said a prayer before her lunch at nursery school (and also did a nativity). Now she's at primary school there's the odd prayer but we picked a school that doesn't have religion at the centre of its ethos so it's not too much.

We just explain to her that some people believe in God, we don't but she can believe whatever she wants. Naturally, she's 5, teacher believes in God and parents don't so she is obviously siding with teacher for now on this one.

I wouldn't tell her teacher is silly! Better to be respectful of others' beliefs if you want them to be respectful of your own.

Yanbu. But I would have been the child saying grace and not realising other people didn't do this. My family are religious (I'm not now), and I have this memory of me saying grace at a friend's house age about 7 and her whole family being on the floor in fits of laughter. So... it really wouldn't surprise me if it's a child doing this and your child is copying- especially if child is in a new room with new children. So bring it up conversationally/ delicately with the nursery.

If the nursery is attached to a Church of England school that's quite normal, I think. I'm not Christian but I am happy that my kids have learnt about the bible at school and know why we celebrate Easter and Christmas. The older one is at secondary now (not a religious school) and still has Christian worship once a week. Some parents excuse their kids from this.

It does sound like it's come from another child rather than the staff, kids copy each other a lot at that age and as someone said earlier they can also be quite bossy at nursery age too.
For what it's worth you worded your post really respectfully, lovely to see that rather than the scornful edgy defensive people for a change- though I see they popped up anyway to make it known how little they respect Christianity as per.

@Piranhaha , your attitude is utterly disgusting
The church will fund a lot in the school, respect that and the faith they follow
You sound rather dim tbh

I do not follow any particular religion, but it always amuses me when people send their children to faith schools, because they have better discipline, and or curriculum, but object to the faith, which supports the school, being taught. Not the OP, but previous posters have referred to this.
In the OPs case, if it is just grace before meals, then I wouldn't object to children being taught to be appreciative for what they have. It ultimately comes from the earth, and we are fortunate to be here, however, and by what, it was formed.

If you can figure out the words he's saying you might find there's nothing very religious in them. In Muslim households we begin in the name of the lord but if we are eating out then the prayer is very much in favour of the host.
Dear lord provide sustainance to the one who has fed me, and quench the thirst of the one who has quenched mine.

Someone told my young child god lives in the sky and for years ever since theyve been having nightmares about it, are terrified of clouds, especially fog

I am very open to my child making his own choices, there is a huge difference between my child making choices (related to this topic) at 3 and making choices at 16+.

I am extremely grateful to those who have provided constructive responses on how they dealt with this situation themselves as this has given me ample knowledge on how best to move forward by being able to age appropriately discuss religion with my 3 year old. Something I wouldn’t have known how to do without support from here.

Thank you, I appreciate that. ❤️

Primary schools must teach RE, but it’s never ever 5 hours a week. Obviously out of 25 or less hours, that would be utterly ludicrous. The agreed curriculum is a joint agreement between religious leaders in the area and the school providers. Parents can withdraw Dc from these lessons so I can assure everyone, it won’t be 5 hours a week in the uk. 1 lesson once a week more likely!

As this is a nursery school, is it attached to a primary school? Of what character is the primary school? All primary schools must have a daily act of worship but don’t have to teach RE in nursery or EY. So it’s reasonable to politely enquire where Grace is coming from. Also, if part of a primary school, the nursery will be inspected with the primary. So maybe this practice is embedded at the primary? If it’s a separate nursery, I’m surprised and would ask about it. They should also make the curriculum and ethos available to parents.

Another point: CofE snd Catholic schools are not funded by these religions. They might own the buildings (or not) but they do not pay the staff or pay for anything else. School budgets for these schools come from the same source as other schools, taxation. They are schools that are religious in character and you have to accept that if you go to one. Some parents have no choice, but if you have chosen the school, it’s poor not to support it fully.

And nonsensical.

Now children, listen carefully to this last whist she teaches you frontal adverbials as Mummy pays her taxes but after lunch when she's making a tissue paper stained glass window with you then she's silly and you mustn't believe her.

Primary schools must teach RE, but it’s never ever 5 hours a week. Obviously out of 25 or less hours, that would be utterly ludicrous. The agreed curriculum is a joint agreement between religious leaders in the area and the school providers. Parents can withdraw Dc from these lessons so I can assure everyone, it won’t be 5 hours a week in the uk. 1 lesson once a week more likely!

I can assure you that it is five hours a week at the Catholic Primary I taught at.

I'm not saying it wasn't 'utterly ludicrous' though as I think it was/is utterly ludicrous.

Like I say, you can manipulate it by getting it in to every other subject you possibly can but five hours every week.

There is a huge difference between being taught ABOUT religion and being taught to PRACTICE religion. Some people "fail" to see this distinction.

I find your post extremely offensive and disrespectful.

What am I supposed to tell her? That religion is real?

Religion is an adherence to a set of beliefs and values that other people within that group also subscribe to. Of course its real. Whether you believe in the values of that religion is a different matter, but there are countless ways of reconciling your beliefs with those of others without belitting and insulting someone else.

I agree, it's not really on these days. I remember at nursery and in primary school saying prayers (not just in assembly) and teaching CofE religion as fact in a supposedly non-denominational school. Same in DDs' non-denominational primary school. I don't mind it from a cultural perspective - harvest festival, Christmas, Easter etc and learning
i about
religion but I was surprised how much teaching it as fact and slipping in saying prayers and so on still goes on.

No, the church does not fund the school. It’s a state school funded by my taxes, and my child has every right to attend it. The only other option is a failing school where the classes are twice the size. So the religious aspect is the lesser of two evils. There are Muslim children etc in the class so I wouldn’t expect they can push religion too much.

You don’t tell her her teachers are silly @Piranhaha , that’s a start
@arobynw i hope you get everything sorted

Could you not try to explain that some people believe in their religions whilst others don't? Surely that's a little more helpful than telling her that her teachers are stupid? I'm also an atheist but try to respect other people's religious beliefs and certainly wouldn't be concerned about a child saying grace - it was always absolutely standard to say grace before and after lunch when I was at school and more recently at my daughters primary school, which wasn't a church school. I tried to bring my daughter up to have respect for all religions and faiths, as well as for people who do not believe in anything. As a result she had a well rounded view of religion and took the decision to convert to Islam two years ago. I don't share her beliefs but I respect her right to have taken the decision and certainly would never consider her to be silly!

YANBU. Children shouldn’t be indoctrinated

Unfortunately, you are likely to encounter this at school at well. I remember my daughter starting Reception, and within a few months, coming home saying she wanted to be a Christian and go to church 😅 And it wasn’t a religious school, just a regular state primary. They have strong links with the local “schools ministry” and love to get them in to lead Christian assemblies. I don’t like it but I have no choice but to put up with it.