To NOT expect my DC to clean up after themselves yet

[Goingoutat3]

Me and DH are in midst of a huge argument that started yesterday after spending a week listening to him snap at the DC to clean up their stuff. I mean I'm all for asking the DC to tidy at the end of the day.. sometimes at the end of the activity... But I'm also , I feel, realistic that theyre just kids... They don't realise the impact their "mess" has on the home and probably think the fairies clean their stuff away

DC are 9 and 4.5

DH attitude towards it is if it's not picked up/owned up to/cleaned away he will throw it in the bin

That's what happened yesterday, he semi-shouted from the kitchen "whoever's this is can you put it away or it's going in the bin"

DC9 was in eye shot of what 'this is'. DC4 and I were not.

DC9 said its not mine (which was right in the end as it was DC4's)

He then said okay it's going in the bin

I then shouted out what is it????

He told me it was a mini bowl (of which DC have one each for when they do mini cooking)

I then said can you take it out the bin it's DC4's

He said no you get it out the bin

This obviously pissed me off so I went into kitchen, took it out the bin, put it in dishwasher and told him he needs to lower his expectations of the kids.

This then escalated into a full blown argument about how I:

"Live like a pig" (ridiculous)
"Can't even organise myself to get the food shopping" (like a day or 2 late due to holidays/DC/my activities)
"Don't discipline the DC"

I've been round two seperate houses this week where I have witnessed the mess that other children make and subsequently their DMum or DDad picking up after them (within reason) or asking them to clean up after an activity before moving onto the next.

AIBU
Yes- they should be picking up after themselves every time at this age
No-DH expectations are too high

Anything in between?

Post edited by MNHQ

Your kids are similar ages to mine (8 yrs old and almost 5)

I would be very disappointed if they didn't even attempt to clean up after theirselves. They have both been taught how to clean up and tidy away from the moment they could totter about. Obviously age appropriate tasks, I wouldn't expect them to be deep cleaning the house (that's child labour lol).

For some perspective, here's a rough list of what my kids do...(I would never ask them to do any of these, besides the basic tidying up and cleaning up after theirselves -as this is basic life skills - the rest they do because they like to help and have been shown how important it is from a very young age)

Almost 5 yr old: tidies up toys, puts folded washing away in draws, feeds the cat, cleans up anything she spills (drinks, dropped food etc), helps with dusting and folding washing, puts cutlery on table and carries through her own empty plates etc.

8 yr old: As above, PLUS flicks the hoover round his room and makes his own bed, helps load/unload washing machine, helps prepare basic meals, occasionally helps wash up or put away clean dishes.

I am in full agreement with you DH - though he seems to have handled it really badly! Perhaps have a chat and come up with a compromise - e.g. the kids always have to tidy up as they go, but he will be a little less harsh on them and help gently remind them instead of getting stressy with them and you will do more to encourage them to be independent.

I agree that the title said that

But my actual OP didn't

The way he reacted and spoke was entirely inappropriate.

The habits and skills you build at these ages matter. It's not an excuse to treat you all that way, but this whole 'they'll do it when asked' is not setting up good habits. It's setting up them having to be asked to do things when what needs to be worked on is when they're done to put things away.

Yeah, a lot of parents make a rod for their own back cleaning behind their kids, because at first it's just faster and easier - I've been there - but it does tend to lead resentment by parents and older kids/teenagers/young adults who are blind to the messes and have to be cojoled into cleaning up their messes. Low expectations with little ones tends don't tend to rise well as they get older and bigger.

Together, decide what habits you want to build, start one at a time. If cleanliness is a top priority, it can be done, even with a four year old. The ideas others had like having a bin for things that bother the adults that the kids can then sort out can work well.

What's racist about "throwing a paddy"??? I'm genuinely bemused.

Google it.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Throwing%20a%20paddy

Oh it is! Believe me!

Your husband is right.

Thats interesting! Considering most of my family came over on the boats. Still remember the no Irish, no blacks no dogs signs!

It sounds to me like he’s had enough because you aren’t taking him into consideration.

I’d be supporting my husband, presumably who is paying a significant amount towards this house, so that he can enjoy it as well as it being a family home.

Not everything is about the kids and it sounds like yours don’t respect their father’s wishes and what’s worse is that neither do you.

You presumed wrong actually, we both pay 50/50 so both pay significantly if u like

Agree. We were taught to cook meals at 9, and certainly expected to clean up well before then.

I didn’t presume wrong, I presumed right. 50% is significant. Do you think you contribute an insignificant amount as you contribute 50%?

No, but the tone of your post was presuming he paid more than me and was therefore entitled to a stronger opinion on how the house is run

We are both statistically significant

I think he needs to accept that the house isn't going to be 100% today all of the time. My DD (7) is constantly leaving things dotted around -i pick them up and out then in a small box to go though with her at he end of the week. What I find works for us if I get her tidy her stuff away before meal times and times. I don't think you DH should be so aggressive of he's not even asked them to tidy it awa calmly - he can't just go straight to threats as they will just become scared I him

I have 4 kids aged between 4-9 and they are all expected to clean up after themselves. Dirty clothes in the washing bin, dirty dishes in the sink, toys away after playing, shoes away by the door etc. The older two will make their beds each morning. I think there’s a balance to be had. As the adult I will do the majority of housework but I think it’s also important for young children to learn responsibility and routine from a young age too. I don’t think it’s nice to have such a harsh approach though. They’re still children and he needs to show patience.

What percentages of housework/childcare do you both do then, OP?

If you do more than 50%, I guess that makes you more "statistically significant" 😂. And gives you a greater say on how things are run.

Wtf did I just read? 9 year old is too young to clean up after themselves? Does the teacher get them changed for PE too? C’mon OP.

4.5 is the prime age for learning to tidy up. We use that brain rotting tidy-up song on Spotify and help them. It’s a process that involves a lot of jollying them along because, naturally, they become distracted by every single thing they pick up. 🤣

My 11yo will empty the dishwasher now. Think about the long game, OP.

Why can't the kids pick up after themselves?

I'd say at least 75% of the childcare
And about the same for housework, possibly more

what an idyllic family life this sounds for the children

You chose to interpret it in your own way. I didn’t even imagine he pays more towards the family.

Being so perpetually offended (and wrong) must be very tiring.

Well, there you have it.

Your contribution to the household is more statistically significant and so you're the one who gets to stomp around, creating an atmosphere, while everyone else kowtows to you "yes ma'am, no ma'am, three bags full ma'am'. And if you're unhappy, then damn right the rest of them will be too.

Just tell him to keep his gob shut until he does equal child-wrangling/toilet-cleaning to you. Until then, he's not entitled to an opinion on how the house should be run because you are the main contributor to the household and that's how it works. Forget happy families and mutually respectful relationships.

Please point out the part that says DC do tidy up. Your first post. No wonder your DH is losing his shit, you are the cause of it as evidenced by this thread.

Indeed. Angry and abusive behaviour is, after all, usually the fault of the woman who provokes it. Men, like toddlers, can't be expected to manage their frustrations appropriately rather than terrorising young children. That would be too much to ask.