To NOT expect my DC to clean up after themselves yet

[Goingoutat3]

Me and DH are in midst of a huge argument that started yesterday after spending a week listening to him snap at the DC to clean up their stuff. I mean I'm all for asking the DC to tidy at the end of the day.. sometimes at the end of the activity... But I'm also , I feel, realistic that theyre just kids... They don't realise the impact their "mess" has on the home and probably think the fairies clean their stuff away

DC are 9 and 4.5

DH attitude towards it is if it's not picked up/owned up to/cleaned away he will throw it in the bin

That's what happened yesterday, he semi-shouted from the kitchen "whoever's this is can you put it away or it's going in the bin"

DC9 was in eye shot of what 'this is'. DC4 and I were not.

DC9 said its not mine (which was right in the end as it was DC4's)

He then said okay it's going in the bin

I then shouted out what is it????

He told me it was a mini bowl (of which DC have one each for when they do mini cooking)

I then said can you take it out the bin it's DC4's

He said no you get it out the bin

This obviously pissed me off so I went into kitchen, took it out the bin, put it in dishwasher and told him he needs to lower his expectations of the kids.

This then escalated into a full blown argument about how I:

"Live like a pig" (ridiculous)
"Can't even organise myself to get the food shopping" (like a day or 2 late due to holidays/DC/my activities)
"Don't discipline the DC"

I've been round two seperate houses this week where I have witnessed the mess that other children make and subsequently their DMum or DDad picking up after them (within reason) or asking them to clean up after an activity before moving onto the next.

AIBU
Yes- they should be picking up after themselves every time at this age
No-DH expectations are too high

Anything in between?

Post edited by MNHQ

Do you think that you might be too soft on the kids because your h is too hard on them ? You both feel like the other is too extreme and counteract that by being the opposite to compensate?

Throwing things away is too extreme but any chance that there's too much "stuff" in your home like many people ?

Would u threaten to throw one item away in the bin if it's not owned within seconds?

He's actually being abusive. It's very, very distressing for children to have their belongings thrown away. I still get nightmares about it in my 40s.

Obviously it's good for children to learn to tidy in an age-appropriate manner. Age 4 that might be making it a game your DH and child do together, playing house, sorting by colour or item: a mix of their developmental milestones, imagination and making it part if playing or eating that you tidy afterwards and something you do together. By age 9, more focus on independently noticing what needs doing and a few tasks that are daily responsibilities such clearing own plates etc. after a meal, putting toys away when finished playing, putting own underwear in laundry. At all ages, a lot of praise plus explaining why this is so helpful and good.

Your DH should have been doing this from when they were toddlers, rather than expecting them to do it magically now if he hasn't taught them patiently in a fun way painstakingly over years.

He also ought to realise that the holidays are about chilling.

Also, he ought to possess sufficient IQ to grasp that a plastic bowl isn't the 9 year old's.

You are a bit late to the party. I had both ds's helping, tidying, putting their toys away, at toddlers.

Team DH here also however other people choose to live is irrelevant they might be happy to live in dirt and chaos

Instead of throwing things in the bin - could you suggest getting a basket/bucket for each child? Things that annoy DH left lying around could get tossed in there by DH and then the kids have a chance to tidy them up.

I know it’s easier sometimes just to tidy up for them and I am the same -but I try as much as possible because I know it will be easier in the long run to get them into the habit.

Ds was taught to help mum/dad and /or tidy up after himself from toddler age onwards and was taking his food bowl back to the kitchen almost as soon as he could walk! Obviously they are no use at it when very young, and it is more game like, but it plants the seeds of the habit and accountabilty.

I would never be happy with the move it or it gets binned shouty bullying style of teaching children. A 9 year old should be fairly reliably tidying up after themselves with a few gentle reminders from either parent, a 4 year old should still be getting helped by both. If they need shouted at it is a parenting issue not a child issue.

But DH isn't teaching anything, he's throwing stuff in the bin! If he wants to teach he needs to call them into the kitchen and work with them explaining, showing and teaching them what they need to do after eating, cooking etc.

I think that your expectations are too low (especially for a 9.5 year old) and that when your children enter puberty and stop cleaning when asked, you will regret not helping them make tidying up a part of their daily routine. It's easier to be tidy when it's habit. Learning when older or even adult is harder.

You mean work with the 4 year old surely?

I think a 9 year old (assuming NT) was taking the piss if I had to explain, show and teach him what he needed to do after eating/cooking.

Surely her DH should be doing this, then?

Your DH is right in that they're more than capable of tidying up their own mess - especially the older one.

But threatening to throw their stuff away is pointless when they've never been expected to tidy up properly to begin with, and expecting a spotless house with young children is also unrealistic.

That being said, they shouldn't be leaving their stuff around for you to tidy up. You should be making them go back and pick it up/put it away when they're finished.

I think your husband needs to have a think about how he talks to his children . He would never talk to an adult like this. He’d never throw the possessions of an adult away because they hadn’t been tidied. So why is that ok for his children? He’s modelling much poorer behaviour than failure to tidy up the odd bowl. He’ll be getting this back in spades in a few years time.

Presumably 9 year old hasn't learned, because instead of showing him when he was 4 his dad shouted and hurled things in the bin?

Your posts are confusing. But your DH is overreacting, throwing in the bin is ridiculous, and it shouldn’t be causing shouting. But equally kids should be expected to tidy up after themselves from a young age, within a reasonab,e time frame, or before they start doing something else.

@WhateverMate If the 9 yo hasn't been shown yet, then they still need to be taught. It's not obvious to all children (or adults!).

My DC are very much capable of tidying up

And will do it when they are asked

Ive maybe confused the post with the title... They ARE capable of tidying

And will tidy when asked and when moving from one activity to another (within reason)

I'm more talking about the smaller things that get picked up and left somewhere

This bowl in particular wasn't being "played" with

It was looked at and held by DC4 but then at some point she put it down. Instread of putting it back in the cupboard she put in on a chair.

Surely you PP's who have said their children tidy away will not literally tidy away every single object their hands touch /move things every day?!?

You're both being unreasonable.

Your husband has the right idea but is going about it in a pig headed and brutish manner that isn't going to teach them anything except "dad will bin my stuff on a whim".

You're being unreasonable to think you're children are just going to magically learn to clean up after themselves if you don't teach them to do so.

You keep saying they clean when asked. At 9 your child should be capable of recognising when things need tidying/cleaning and doing so without prompting. They shouldn't only be cleaning when instructed to do so, there should be awareness and self management, especially at 9.

You're way too soft, your husband is too harsh. You need to find a middle ground between the two of you.

You need to teach your kids to tidy up after themselves.
Your DH needs to stop yelling and doling out threats to the kids.
Also you and DH need to ideally on what's an acceptable level of mess. Personally I am someone who gets very stressed if there's mess and toys everywhere.

That’s certainly not how your thread title or your opening post comes across…. 🙄

Putting it in the bin is an over reaction and when the kids hit the teenage years this authoritarian dictatorship approach could back fire. Also the food shipping remark. He doesn’t see you as an equal.

You've made this way more emotive than I think it actually is, and so you are going to get skewed answers from the title and some of the phrasing you've used.

Ultimately, yes, kids need to clear up. But are unlikely to tidy to adult standards. And it sounds like your DH has very high standards. Kids absolutely should understand things need putting away, dishes need washing, dirty clothes need putting in the laundry basket, floors need vacuuming......
It sounds like there needs to be a balance in your house. Binning people stuff is unfair on the timescales it sounds like DH gives. Leaving stuff everywhere is unfair. I'm not sure exactly where on this scale you sit.

He is being unreasonable to throw stuff in the bin.

You are being unreasonable to not expect your children to tidy up after themselves, especially the 9yr old.

You are being unreasonable to use the racist phrase "throw a paddy"

That's a big presumption there.

Sometimes kids can be lazy 🤷‍♂️

Thank you!!! Genuinely gobsmacked to see that