People looking after children while wfh

[paws732]

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

It definitely depends on what you do. However I think it's important to focus at work and also focus at home. It's hard splitting your attention during the working day.
I always suspect staff with young children at home are not fully focussed on work and can't attend certain meetings which is not fair on others. However I hadn't really thought about the amount of chatting that goes in in the face to face office environment until a poster here pointed it out.

The children weren’t misbehaving, they were being neglected. Of course they shouldn’t be on a work call. They should be looked after by an adult who is trying to teach and exercise and stimulate them. Poor kids.

It is a post covid 21st century. Move on!

Yes it should be in the police - wfh doesn't mean you have child care responsibilities

So they would allow you to look after a 2 year old whilst "working from
Home"?

Oh, did I say I had a 2 yr old? I don't remember writing that. When my kids were pre school age they went to nursery. My youngest is almost 11 now, I've been wfh since she was 8.

My boss does have toddlers running around though.

I am a parent who sometimes wfh and I find this appalling and unprofessional, letting the side down for other parents who appreciate and need the allowance to wfh to help with childcare. We are not all like this.

Exactly this. People manged before covid so it boils down to people have just become acustom to saving on childcare.

Opinions can obviously vary on whether this is a legit thing to do or not, but one thing we know for certain is that there's less childcare now than there was pre covid. With that in mind, people having done something three and a half years ago clearly doesn't mean they can still do it now.

People manged before covid

Did you read the thread? Lots of provision has shut since then. The supply is not there.

Mostly nurseries, I think? So presumably a year round problem?

This age is probably the one that needs parents' attention most, both practically and developmentally! I don't know how parents can look after a 2/3/4 year old and work long term.

Nope - round here it's mostly the after school clubs that tend to morph into holiday clubs over the summer that folded, because in the immediate post-pandemic period when people were still working remotely, there wasn't the demand there to make them economically viable. So the providers pulled them - we got hit with it ourselves about 2 days before the start of the school term at one point and DH had to go to his employers and negotiate changed working hours to enable him to work around the sudden loss of after school provision.

Kids' school have never reopened their after school club - they no longer have staff contracted to cover those hours so it wouldn't be easy for them if they wanted to do so. Breakfast club numbers are dicey but school have managed to keep those afloat just to help parents out as much as they can.

Even the schools who did manage to get their wrap around care back working again have reduced hours down around here - so the one that finished at 6pm now finishes at 5.30 (which has a knock on if you're commuting out of the city centre - 5.30 is cutting it very very tight in terms of any incidents on the roads or public transport, but 6 was a safe bet to be back for pickup) or the infant school one that took junior school siblings as well and collected them and walked them down - no longer takes junior school siblings... so you're left with a cliff edge of provision for the 7 year olds where you previously wouldn't have had that.

It caused us a lot of difficulties when I had to go back to university-based study for that final year, but the childcare I'd factored the entire ability to go back to university for at all was no longer in place in terms of physically being open (not just nice to save the cash) and thankfully DH's employer were OK with flexible working and not needing to return into the office so I could finish the course. The alternative would have been, since DH is the higher earner, that I staffed away 2/3 of a degree, took on the student debt with no reward, and had to be a stay at home mother instead (therefore incurring even more vitriol from MN) - even these days when the wrap around provision at school has not fully returned, it would be me that would have to stop working if we didn't have flexibility from employers because of the balance of salaries... and I would think in the case of a lot of my colleagues, who all work at the "workhorse grades" in the NHS (we're the ones out seeing the patients, working through the referrals and with insane caseloads) - we'd be the ones in a family who would have to quit work... assume you'd quite like the nurses to come out and see you when required, or physios to be available when you put your back out?

This, of course, won't be read by the MN intentionally hard of thinking because they've spotted yet another thing they can find to make other women's lives harder.

I hadn't heard anything about it being mostly nurseries either. I did read something during covid that childminders were particularly struggling, but I can't seem to find it now.

Yes! They're hardly going to say 'Look. I know Little Johnny and his nose picking is adorable to you, but it isn't to me, so would you mind leaving him elsewhere while we talk business. If not, call me back when you can guarantee I'll have your full attention.'

But that may well be what they are thinking.

Thanks for that. I'll bear it in mind next time I have to ring a firm to tell them about my Mother's death, and be interrupted more than once because the person I am speaking to is refereeing their screaming children in the background.

@TheKeatingFive yes I've read the thread. I am a single parent as already stated myself with no family support. I also managed to get to work during covid (hospital ward too) Its still unacceptable in my eyes... I had to move my Son round various playschemes during covid due to rules and restrictions it was possible during covid and is now. People just don't want to pay. I said what I said!

@babbscrabbs absolutely agree! Even older kids.. I can't even have a conversation sometimes without my Son coming to chat to me it's cruel really to expect to do it week in week out.

Nobody has a say in your home yet you think its OK to impose kids on screens on important calls? The audacity

I think lots of people are using the 'lots of places closed during covid' as an excuse, sorry.

The reason is people don't want to pay. And I don't blame them, who would want to pay £50+ a day childcare if they can get away with wfh and keeping the child in the house. That's the same whether it's a COL crisis or not, if someone has the money or not - 99% of people would rather spend the money elsewhere.

I think having kids over say,8 or 9 at home is probably okay if they can be trusted to do their own thing with telly, toys, iPads etc, if there really is no other choice.

But where does it end though? People don't want to pay train tickets for the commute so they want to wfh. People don't want to buy lunch, get up 2 hours earlier, have the commute home etc. None of those reasons are bad as long as the production level is the same as in the office.

But when people don't want to pay childcare so they wfh, it gets dangerous as that could hard production levels. Maybe some roles you can, if you genuinely can work your own hours, but most you can't do with a young child there.

I worry where these demands will go in the end. People are already declining meetings at my company because they have to do the school run at 3pm. In their mind, their childcare needs come before meetings and work even during core hours.

In the end it will be wrecked for all of us and wfh jobs will become a rarity again. Before covid wfh just one day per week was a rare privilege in many companies and happened after you had proven yourself after a flexible working request. Now it's taken for granted.

When we are all ordered back to the office we will all be harmed - the childless people who work well from home, the mums who save 2 hours on their commute and can currently take their child to school / pick up their child from school/nursery earlier than they would in the office, the cash strapped people who are only surviving due to wfh and saving money on train fares, and just anyone else who prefers being in their own environment than a busy office. We will all lose.

It's a shame that people aren't placing their child's wellbeing over their budgets. Childcare isn't just a place to have your child looked after while you work. Childcare and holiday clubs are there to provide essential peer to peer social stimulation that when started young has significant benefits on an individual's long term health and wellbeing.

So it's not just a case of cost saving while you park your child in front of a device so you can write a report or hop on a few teams calls.

Those saying there are no places or they're too expensive, it's because you're not using them!

I had to move my Son round various playschemes during covid due to rules and restrictions it was possible during covid and is now. People just don't want to pay. I said what I said!

I don't have any problem with paying, I have a problem with the hours of camps. I've never found a single one operating 9-5. The best ones are 10-4, then there are plenty of 10-2 or even 10-1 options.

So again, if you've any bright ideas, do let me know.

And shockingly, a few people have emerged on this thread who have children below primary school age and babies at home with them all day, everyday. I would imagine no company would allow this, that's a whole thing altogether than primary aged kids

@TheKeatingFive I'm sorry but you seemed to have missed the point of the thread yourself. I'm a single parent and I work during school holidays. Childcare.co.uk is good give it a go. I'm telling you I use a holiday camp myself ot is not easy! Granted especially if you are a lone parent I can fully understand don't get me wrong. I can't support this crazy idea though.... of kids being present on zoom and left stuck at home whilst parents work. Like I said people managed before.

Not sure where your based but I'm happy ti give you ideas if you live in the same city as me.

*Not sure where your based but I'm happy ti give you ideas if you live in the same city as me.

Dublin

I wonder, do the posters who've assured us that everyone can get suitable childcare just think the people who've said they can't are lying?