People looking after children while wfh

[paws732]

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

I'm a therapist. I worked full days throughout lockdown from home with children aged 6 and 8. They understood mummy had to work in peace with clients and kept themselves occupied quietly with iPads, drawing, reading etc while I did zoom sessions with my clients.
Now I do a mix of wfh and face to face sessions. I had sessions this morning and my daughter (now 10) kept herself occupied up in her room while I worked. She knows when I'm finished work we have time to play board games, watch movies, have silly time together etc.
I do not think it's right that parents are sitting holding their kids on your work meetings, that just seems OTT unless they're especially young or have particular additional needs. My own children are also autistic too.

@Bluevelvetsofa not all jobs involve customers or clients. I'm guessing (like me) most of the comments from people who work flexibly or catch up in the evenings when kids are in bed have jobs that don't require calls to customers/clients. I highly doubt people are calling clients at 9/10pm at night!

It’s another example of women sabotaging women
Exactly this! Makes me laugh that patriarchy is being blamed, when it's women who make it a problem for others.

Of course it is very appealing to save childcare money to instead enjoy that lovely holiday abroad. The temptation is alluring. Ultimately though, it often impacts on not just males but other women who havea stronger sense of morals.

As a childless person, I have absolutely no problems with people WFH while children are around. It's not my place to micromanage providing they get their job done. Whether they work for two hours before everyone clocks in and for a couple of hours when everyone clocks out and take more breaks throughout he day, it's entirely up to them. There is no rule to say all the work has to be done between certain hours, just that they need to work for X amount of contracted hours - and even that is a detail as it simply means "the amount of work done which equates to 37.5h a week". If they are able to do it in a couple of hours instead, power to them.
However, I would absolutely not tolerate having children sitting on laps during meetings.

OK as for "how do you cope when people expect business meetings to be done during the working day" - you schedule the business meetings during the working day. For my job they tend to be visits out at client's houses and my kids are older so I'm fine leaving them for a couple of hours (MN can have another shit fit about that one as well) while I do this, but I wouldn't leave them for an entire working day at home.

People talking while you're typing a report - learn to multitask. However hard you bullshit yourself - you did not work in an office where people take a vow of silence pre-pandemic and you learnt to manage annoying colleagues, office chit chat, Dave at the next desk being on the phone - time to learn to re-use those skills (or thank the Gods that invented noise cancelling headphones which are actually what I tend to have to rely on when I'm in the office - ignoring a child wittering on about Pokemon is easier than a million people wanting generic advice about a client where I actually HAVE to respond).

People saying the kids are home while you work because of afterschool/holiday clubs don’t cover the while day: what did you do before covid??
A few people I know just don’t want to pay for proper childcare. Or they will book their DC in a club that finished at 3pm because the one covering 9-6 is less interesting.

My issue with people doing childcare while WFH is that often they do it because they don’t want to pay for something that is mandatory and because of them we will all have to go back to the office because of them.

I have stuff that needs to be done around client-facing hours, and stuff that's admin that can be done any time - most people have a similar mix of things but MN loves to be completely rigid about things and impose totally arbitrary random rules.

Also not heard anything to address the fact that the childcare provision reduced dramatically post-pandemic... or would you rather some of us took up a childminder after school slot for a 9/10 year olds meaning that you can't get one for Tarquin and Tabitha aged 4/5?!

People saying the kids are home while you work because of afterschool/holiday clubs don’t cover the while day: what did you do before covid??

Had them at home. You do realise WHF existed before covid don't you? I haven't worked in an office properly since 2012.

People saying the kids are home while you work because of afterschool/holiday clubs don’t cover the while day: what did you do before covid??

Significant fall in the number of after-school and holiday clubs that survived the pandemic around here. Lot of childminders who left the career as well when people's requirement for childcare temporarily reduced before the push to return to the office. We now have no after school club at all, no childminders with availability for most of the local schools in the area (unless you've like signed your child up at birth)... it's a fucking disaster.

Fair few local schools used private providers renting their space for after school and holiday clubs who just pulled the offer because of low immediate post-pandemic numbers (including one who pulled it about 2 days before the start of the academic year which caused chaos around here).

@AbacusAvocado

I agree. I have a job which requires a doctorate but pays less than 15 pounds an hour. If pay had continued rising with the rate of inflation in the last 15 years it would be much more. Flexibility and wfh compensates somewhat, and I think this view is widely held by both employees and managers.

My old company were quite relaxed about pets, kids and partners popping into view, as long as it was during informal and internal meetings only, or a childcare emergency like a poorly child sent home from nursery or school. The rest of the we needed to be somewhere quiet where we could work and take calls without being interrupted.

WFH was not a contractual entitlement but the deal was that we could WFH up to 4 days a week, but that if work wasn't delivered, or if they started to have concerns about someone's availability, then they would need to return to the office FT.

There was only one person who had an issue with this. Despite accepting a role with FT working hours 8.30-5, and confirming that they had childcare in place to enable them to WFH, they blocked out school drop-off and pick-up times in their calendar and refused to schedule, or accept, any meetings during these times. They didn't end up staying for long.

My (large global) company is mainly remote these days, they were closing smaller offices long before Covid hit, and have continued to move people to remote since, leaving mainly large offices in main cities through the world.

However policy is that you must have childcare. It is only acceptable in emergencies, or for example if you're on an out of hours internal call the odd interruption would be overlooked.

So many people saying they catch up after hours, but what happens if you need to be in a Zoom call with customers, who expect you to be available during the day, not at 8pm or later?

Well clearly if you are expected to have meetings with customers during the working day, you have meetings with customers during the working day.

I expect the people who work after hours either a) aren't client-facing or b) manage their diary to do the client facing bits in normal hours and all the rest of their admin/emails/writing etc in the evening. For me it's a)

I'd be fascinated to know if there's a clear public/private sector split amongst posters (and their workplaces) and how acceptable WFH with children present is. And the types of salaries involved.

People saying the kids are home while you work because of afterschool/holiday clubs don’t cover the while day: what did you do before covid??

My child was first year of primary when Covid hit. We had no experience of holiday clubs prior to this as nursery provision covered our working days.

I mean, I'd love to know your thoughts on solutions, so hit me. We don't have family members around to help.

The majority of people WFH with kids are just using tablets or televisions instead of a paid childcare professional.

Yes it can be done and saves money but it’s probably not doing the children any good.

Public sector worker here-no option to WFH. £43k

Agree with this. I personally don’t give a toss. If the people working for me are performing - and all of those I have had in this situation have been top performers - my only concern is their stress level, which to an extent, I have to let them manage themselves in a wfh situation (tho always happy to give advice and support).

I’m a senior academic on £45k. I could WFH with kids to some extent, I have lots of autonomy in my work but I chose not to because it’s not good for me or them. It would make me a bad parent as the only way my kids would not pester me to play (& rightly so) all day is with 8 hours of screen time. It would also make me a bad employee. I could get away with doing less at work but I don’t because I value my employment and many places will be making cutbacks in the coming years.

The argument that people work early mornings, evenings and weekends to catch up is also flawed as that isn’t good for your children too. Whether you are sacrificing that time with them or sacrificing time with your partner or sleep to do so.

YABU. I have no choice but to WFH with my kids here during the summer holidays as I can't afford to put them in childcare every day. I probably end up working more hours/getting more done than I would if they weren't at home.

@Serenglas your insinuation that this makes women bad parents is insulting to those of us who have no choice but to work hard to maintain the balance.

It's true though, it's not good for the children is it, what a boring 6 weeks. You can't effectively work and parent at the same time.

@user65754
But I am a bad parent when I try and simultaneously do my job well and look after my children.
Most WFH with kids are relying heavily on screens. That isn’t good parenting, sorry.

Perhaps this isn’t true of you.

I didn’t mention the cost of childcare but I did budget for holiday childcare when planning my children. Much in the way I budgeted for the preschool years.

It's true though, it's not good for the children is it, what a boring 6 weeks. You can't effectively work and parent at the same time.

Honestly, I don't think such a long summer holiday is good for children. Unless there's a SAHP it's near impossible to manage well.

Also agree with this. Holidays should be evenly spread through the year.

@Serenglas "I did budget for holiday childcare when planning my children. Much in the way I budgeted for the preschool years" - IMO is dangerously close to "poor people shouldn't have kids"... Someone earning an average salary of £30k per year - that's a take home pay of £93 per day. It costs around £50 per day to put two kids into holiday club. The rest of it doesn't go very far in the current climate, does it?

The judgemental comments on this thread are hilarious - how quickly people can jump to conclusions without knowing anything about an individual's situation or parenting.