People looking after children while wfh

[paws732]

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

And their children :) I know some evidently don't think they're important but their welfare and wellbeing is important too.

My DD has two adopted children and does get subsidised holiday care. However it is vouchers, not transferable from the one school offered in this borough, and finishes at three. She's used it for a couple of weeks but the DC don't like it there and it simply isn't long enough.

@Lapflop I am. I'm always clear to them how many people are in the same building as me (I work either in my office at home, or in a room within a tiny building of up to 3 other people).
It wouldn't be right for me to hide it from them.

It has occurred to me that my therapist - who wfh and has a young child - may have been doing this. She didn't tell me as much but she said what you've said i.e. that nobody can hear etc. But I'm now extremely uncomfortable with the idea. I really hope that you are actually telling your clients that you have kids in the house, because if I go back to therapy in future I certainly will be asking.

It would never have occurred to me that someone would wfh treating people for the kinds of things that one could require therapy for (for me, CSA), with kids being capable of listening to it. Even if one-sided. It just feels deeply uncomfortable.

It makes me extremely uncomfortable anything personal - or senior policy - being discussed in a home setting with others in the property. Sound travels further than you think.

@fitzwilliamdarcy I can promise you my clients are always fully aware of who else is in the place where I work.
I don't see all clients from home, just a very specific few who are bringing very light things to the sessions. For my trauma and psychosis clients (for example) I always ensure I have my room booked in the office away from home. And again they are made fully aware if there is anybody using the other therapy room in that building even though they are on opposite sides of that building.
Definitely worth checking with your therapist to make sure and I would expect any decent therapist would be transparent with you about this.

Never said I wasn't. But I don't take the piss wfh though.

I've spent most of my career demonstrating that women with children - and for a lot of years I was a single parent - are good employees and not the pisstakers some of the older men thought we were.

The women today who wfh with their kids around are doing themselves no favours at all. It's nit socking it to the patriarchy, it's showing that women can't be trusted to do their jobs properly which is a slap in the face to every working mother out there who is not taking the piss.

Interesting. The stats are quite low and it would be interesting to see what they are today.

My old therapist used to see me in a therapy room at her home. I imagine it helped her to keep her rates reasonable as she didn't need to pay for an office space... I now see a therapist online as it's more convenient. It genuinely never occurred to me to ask who else was in the house, but it wouldn't have phased me in the slightest to know her children were being cared for by another adult on a different floor of the building.

Do you ask who might be out in the corridor when you go to see a healthcare professional in another setting?

@Serenglas

You are an academic?! Are you in STEM? You are getting childcare/ going in 9-5 in the summer? That seems quite unusual.

This has got to be a joke right? Does anyone actually sit on a teams meeting with their kid on video? Surely not OP

This is so true!
I used to work for a charity a while ago. They seemed like they'd be amazing at first and this was all pre-zoom so in person sessions. The rooms were down a separate corridor meant to be used exclusively for therapy.
Except nobody adhered to that rule. The amount of shouting, giggling, shrieking, swearing etc between staff appalled me. I felt I spent so much of the session time apologising for the noise. I did raise it as did a few of their other therapists but nothing got done about it. I left as soon as I had completed the remaining sessions for the clients I had at the time.
It's a big part of what pushed me to do private practice instead where I can control the level of noise a lot more and guarantee I won't have people banging around in the building.

i think lots of employers now are cracking down a bit because people have been taking the piss. We have had some stern messages this week as a general reminder that people are expected to have childcare in place. I don’t think it is unreasonable for younger children. There is a massive difference between being around for a 10yo on the odd day versus a 3yo for a week.

8-6 day camps are now around £50 a day near me now. It is expensive but I have to suck it up as 1) I need my job and I can’t do it effectively with a child at home and 2) I don’t believe it is good for young children to be stuck at home on screens all day every day. It is still much cheaper than nursery at £80 a day and people just accept that.

I do however think flexibility is important for sickness, emergencies etc. However, there is a real danger that those flexibilities will be removed if employers think parents are flakey.

Whether they work for two hours before everyone clocks in and for a couple of hours when everyone clocks out and take more breaks throughout he day, it's entirely up to them.

Well no, if they're dealing with clients or colleagues who expect things to get done within a certain time frame, it's not 'entirely up to them'. Other people can't be expected to work around your child's naps or school pick up times.

I'm a bit surprised you put this as you are a single mum yourself so I will bite. I absolutely agree with you about WFH and the points you have raised it is not fair on the children. However the rest of the post regarding paying for childcare and people should consider this before hand. I think its highly judgmental of you did you plan to be a single mum? Or was it just unfortunate? (I'm guessing you couldn't plan that part right) no pun intended.

WFH toddler parent here, department head at a full remote company

Don’t you think the issue is the “let’s have a meeting for the sake of the meeting” attitude? Leave people be, it’s hard enough in the holidays when you need to compromise.

Leave people be. As long as the job gets done, seriously, leave them be

I do, I have a 3 year old who often says hi to colleagues and sometimes customers.
Believe me, nobody cares.

It's probably due to the line of what you do.

@Ndhdiwntbsivnwg You’re the boss. They can’t tell you if they did care. My bosses all say the same - that nobody minds - but I know otherwise.

If I were a paying customer and logged on to a meeting and was expected to say hi to some random toddler, I’d stop being a customer. That’s ridiculous.

Otoh I’m really not easy to replace. Maybe you need to work on those niche skills?

Not sure about where all this patriarchy crap came from either and what it has to do with your total lack of respect for your team.

Completely agree but mumsnet are obsessed with presenteeism. Because quality of work and output totally corresponds with the exact uninterrupted hours in front of a laptop. According to the incompetent ime.

These holidays have been hard. We have one who can't go into childcare for various reasons and others who it is better to have at home with that child as they are entertainment for each other. It's only been a few days where it has been an issue as we have managed to juggle it quite well but I am very much aware that it is not ideal on those days when my children are there.

On those days I have been online by 7am and children in bed until 9ish. I've generally managed to work my 7.5 hours and be off by 4, with a short lunch break and other smaller breaks. I have made sure there's no meetings those days. If stuff has needed doing I have been online again in the evenings and responding to emails when they have come in, sometimes in the middle of the night as I'm working with clients around the world right now. I hope that the additional anti social hours go at least some way towards making up for the fact it is not ideal.

@IcedPurple Obviously that completely depends on your role.

These conversations are so pointless without knowing exactly the role and job description of the person in question. If you have a project/ task based job and manage your own workload, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to work whatever hours you want.

Obviously in other jobs that isn't possible.

I imagine that those whose roles do not allow them to wfh/ work flexible hours are the most hostile towards those who can. Which is silly - different jobs have different perks.

The women today who wfh with their kids around are doing themselves no favours at all. It's nit socking it to the patriarchy, it's showing that women can't be trusted to do their jobs properly which is a slap in the face to every working mother out there who is not taking the piss

I imagine most of them are doing it to make ends meet rather than to sock it to the patriarchy tbh.

I wonder how many men work from home whilst in sole charge of the children?