People looking after children while wfh

[paws732]

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

Depends on the job and the employer - mine are fine with us managing our time flexibly to fit in the odd child-related appointment etc (mine currently have a few diagnostic medical appointments going on), and with people WFH when things suit them. Mine are at that awkward age where they're a bit between childcare clubs and being able to be completely left at home for the day - but they're able to amuse themselves elsewhere in the house, or go out to the park while I work... sometimes they'll drift into my office to sit in here and chat while I'm typing paperwork (they're less distracting than some of my colleagues to be fair) but they get booted out if I need to do a meeting call pretty pronto. It's all agreed with management and if they're prepared to offer that - I'm going to use it regardless of what someone on MN is using it as their current stick to beat people WFH about the head with (wasn't it Teams background use the other day as well).

Younger and it would be less ideal and we'd be parentally tag-teaming a lot more than we are now and relying upon grandparents etc - it depends on circumstances, home layout (this would be less viable if we were still in the tiny house we were in during the pandemic) and the kids involved.

One thing worth mentioning is that round here, the pandemic and immediate aftermath of people still working remotely meant a LOT of the school wrap around provision was no longer economically viable - after school clubs cut hours or closed completely, breakfast clubs generally survived to a point but provision was again cut down in terms of staffing and available places - and that's not reappeared yet. My kids' school no longer run their after school club at all and it's not likely to re-start, childminders are full as a result so there just are not the childcare places there were pre-pandemic when you're getting toward school aged children.

Over the age that children start school, ie at least Reception aged, I presume the pp meant.

So many people saying they catch up after hours, but what happens if you need to be in a Zoom call with customers, who expect you to be available during the day, not at 8pm or later?

I don’t want to have business conversations at that time, because it’s convenient for someone wfh who is working whilst the children are in bed. I don’t think that caring for a child/ children under the age of 8 or so and wfh are compatible and it’s clear that, for most, it saves money and that’s why they do it.

There should be a proper comparison to show what the differences are between wfh and in the office. Not just individual companies, but across the board. If people are working to fit in with their children, I’d be wondering whether that also fits in with the needs of the business and customers and clients.

I just saw a Communications and Project Manager job advertised at £27k which would have been low back in 2003 when I started working, so I'm a bit more on the "what else does everyone expect in this economy" side of things

Absolutely ridiculous. So unprofessional. I would find it difficult to work for a company who allowed this.

Totally unacceptable.

I think a lot of people who WFH are totally kidding themselves if they think they are as productive with young kids around as they'd be in the office where their colleagues can see what they're doing. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that even if they DON'T have kids many of them are kidding themselves if they think they are as productive.

It seems to be worse in public sector or charitable organisations. Every time I have to try and contact either of those type of organisations you just can't get through on the phones then when you do most people sound SO unprofessional, really switched off, almost speaking in a drawl as if they're sitting there with their feet up on the sofa while talking to you.

It's all just so unprofessional and I'm sick to the back teeth of the inefficiency. Of COURSE people will kick up a stink if they think their cushy WFH job is at risk of being taken from them. But I doubt a whole organisation would walk out if push came to shove.

However, I do understand the childcare issues that some people have during school holidays and I think employers could be more flexible on this. eg allowing, where possible, a part-time arrangements during school holidays only so that they don't have as many days to cover.. People are always saying "I end up only working to cover the childcare during summer holidays" so there's not a lot of argument against it.

Yes employers need to be more flexible now but I do think that a lot of parents have come to have the expectation that their work will accommodate their childcare issues and are not happy when their employer is not as flexible as they want them to be because of the business needs.

Agreed. There’s a huge difference between an employer offering flexibility and an employee expecting to get away with an entire summer of minimal work simply because they have children.

My employer is very flexible. I often leave early to attend kid related things at school or start late to take them to appointments etc, as do others. But when some people are literally demanding no meetings at all before 9.15am or after 3pm because that’s when they drop or collect their dc that’s a huge problem to the business, particularly when we are a service provider and our clients demand flexibility around their schedules. I should say that if I’ve had something in the diary with the kids and need to start late or finish early, this has always been accommodated with a reasonable amount of notice. Ditto emergencies such as poorly kids etc, so it’s not as though allowances are not made.

We’ve also recently had a customer facing member of the team crying in the office as she didn’t know what she would do with her dc over the summer. She started this job months ago and wfh previously. It was advertised at a significantly higher salary because there is no wfh option in this role but this person was demanding to wfh (simply not possible) because she couldn’t be expected to pay for childcare for her dc. She was offered parental leave at short notice which in itself would have been hugely inconvenient to the business, but she refused as she didn’t feel that she should lose out on her wages. The only option she would consider was wfh while caring for her dc on full pay which is significantly more than she would earn in a similar role because the job cannot be done from home and we needed to attract office based staff. The entitlement is staggering, you honestly couldn’t make it up.

I agree that employers have a responsibility to be flexible but they shouldn’t have to pander to these sorts of demands. My employers is now also looking at getting everyone back in the office full time as they are fed up of dealing with this sort of unreasonable behaviour.

The only option she would consider was wfh while caring for her dc on full pay

Just wondering how this situation was solved by your employer?

sometimes they'll drift into my office to sit in here and chat while I'm typing paperwork (they're less distracting than some of my colleagues to be fair) but they get booted out if I need to do a meeting call pretty pronto.

See, why has this attitude become acceptable? It's really unprofessional to be talking to someone at the same time as producing a work document. And it's also unfair on your child, because if you WERE producing anything of quality then you wouldn't be fully engaging with them properly, would you? Even if you pause what you're doing and give them your full attention to listen, and to ensure that you're not making any errors while distracted, then your productivity has gone down because that document is going to take a lot longer to finish. If you were in the office and had your head down people would see you were busy and wouldn't interrupt you unless they had a pressing work-related question.

I just find it so unprofessional. People just don't have time to chat much in my workplace while we're working. Because, you know, we're working! We might chat if make a brew, or while eating lunch. But the rest of the time you're paid to do a job, and your full attention should be on it.

My team are fully wfh and I expect them to have childcare for primary kids. I have my 12 year old home this summer but she makes me a coffee and puts laundry away rather than interrupting meetings.

You should ask the parents how they structure their day to allow this - you’ll be surprised. Most parents who have their kids with them when wfh have a ‘stay until it’s done’ mentality which is why they’re trusted. Eg I start work at 6am everyday so I can do the school / nursery run or mooch around with the kids for a few hours in the afternoon. I regularly work 4-5 after kids go to bed too. As long as I do my job the company doesn’t care

4-5 hours

I agree, not many jobs are purely admin now, most have an element of needing interpersonal contact, be it with customers or with other staff. If other employees have got their work done during normal hours I don't see why they should have to work in the evening to fit in with people who haven't?

There are jobs where you WFH in the evening and deal with customers on the phone, I suggest that these are more suitable for people who don't want to use proper childcare.
My DD and DIL work for very different employers. One has to go in five days a week now and the other goes in for just two, but all their children are in summer clubs for the bulk of working hours. DD's employer lets them start early and finish at 3.00 over the summer to fit in with this. I do the morning runs to the holiday club to enable her to start early. DIL or DS take their children and share collections with friends.
Either way they all put in a full working day, with no interruptions from their children. I'm amazed that some posters think that working from home with children present is fair to employers and agree with Bluevelvet sofa that there needs to be a proper comparison between the work that is done in both situations.

The scenario Curly describes where she is momentarily distracted whilst typing a document is exactly what it is like in my office. Constant interruptions by colleagues dropping by desks to ask this, that or the other. The noise is ridiculous as people conduct calls with clients from their desks (meeting rooms are all taken since genius management decided everyone has to be on the same days). Or the colleague who has nothing better to do than engage in inane chat about Love Island.

If I’m at home I can tell my child to go to another room and do xyz whilst I’m working. Impossible to say that to a work colleague.

It probably depends on the industry. I’m in tech/digital media where ‘heads down, work in silence’ isn’t really a thing. Anyway, I’m much more productive at home even if DC are around.

I don't wfh but both my eldest and my partner have 'kept an eye' on my children while working from home when I've had no childcare. If these children are between 5-8 there is no need for them to be sat on knees/climbing on parents during meetings. My twins are 6 and are able to be told "I'm in a meeting now, stay in the living room" and have been able to for quite some time. If they were unable to do so then I wouldn't leave them with someone working from home.

Amount of times I've called up LA and had a small child screaming in the background on their end.

Unacceptable

It wasn’t. She’s currently off sick (on full pay).

Doesn't surprise me, what with the cost of living and cost of childcare. I can't imagine it's anyone's ideal solution.

On the slim chance that post is genuine, and I suspect there are people that think somewhat down those lines, unless you have a very niche highly sought after skill set you are deluded.

I had someone try that line in me last week. Once I stopped laughing I pointed out that there were 100's of people in our company who do the sa,e job as her and that I get at least 20 people a week with her skills contact me with queries about vacancies. So most people who think they have niche skills and should therefore be allowed to take the piss, don't and aren't.

It's not acceptable. You're being paid to work not work while looking after children. I or my partner cannot do our jobs remotely but certain people in the company can and once I had to call someone about an issue and I had to cut the call short because her children where having a screaming match in the background, neither of us could hear each other and she wasnt focused. It not only affected her work but mine and subsequently several more people in the chain. It made me so angry as I have had to demote myself and reduce my hours so I can look after my child as nurseries or childminder isn't an option and people are taking the piss not paying for childcare and still working full time.

I had someone try that line in me last week. Once I stopped laughing I pointed out that there were 100's of people in our company who do the sa,e job as her and that I get at least 20 people a week with her skills contact me with queries about vacancies

You sound like a great boss 🙄

You’d obviously to replace though at least.

Be easy to replace….

If I'm WFH, even if DH or DM are looking after the DC, they'll often come up for a hug or to sit on my lap. If I'm talking to my team, no bother, it's not distracting and I can keep working. Completely different if I was actually trying to get away with looking after them while I was meant to be working of course.