People looking after children while wfh

[paws732]

My company operates mainly remotely, so we mostly work from home with occasional office days. We have a lot of Teams meetings for connectivity.

With the summer holidays, I have had meeting with a lot of colleagues who have their children sitting on their laps during the meetings. These children range from 5-8, and they are not behaving themselves either. One child kept putting things on their mum's head, and another was having a tantrum about being bored.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be looking after children while wfh, even if it's the school holidays? I feel it will eventually spoil wfh arrangements for everyone, as employers will not tolerate this is many companies.

England’s 6 week summer holidays is one of the shortest in the world-I can’t see them changing.

What’s needed is affordable, government-subsidised play schemes run at sports/children’s centres. My university student DC would be up for working in such a place for the summer.

Well sure, but they are what they are currently. I wonder what people did prior to wfh being more widespread, just left them at home alone? Imagine 6 weeks stuck at home whilst your parent works as a young child, ridiculously tedious probably not great for development either.

Great idea! Dependent upon having a government that gives a crap about children and working parents....but that's another debate all together!😂

This type of response is the issue with mumsnet there are no shades of grey.

Only a truly desperate person would do this - the reality of it is that most people just juggle between parents, do the odd outing/ holiday club, have a holiday, use grandparents a bit.

Equally not many people wfh will really put them it kids in a holiday club 8-6 daily. I’m sure there are some but again it’s an extreme.

So really the doing nothing will be a few days here and there. Tbh I don’t see the harm in this as kids do need downtime.

@Teateaandmoretea Exactly this.

If I put them in holiday club every day, we wouldn't be able to do much together on the days I've booked off as all the money would have gone on childcare. So we do our best to juggle it - my DD also hates holiday club, and would rather be at home even when I'm working. So I feel guilty whatever I do! But we fudge our way through and try to have some fun along the way.

Those of you who wfh with children present during school holidays - does your contact allow for this? And is the fact that you are looking after children discussed openly with your managers? I think it's clear that it's more acceptable in some jobs than in others, but what I can't work out from the comments is whether permission has been expressly given to do this.

@DontJumpInTheFountain my contract states my contracted number of hours, which can be worked flexibly - need to be available for meetings in core hours when required. They are aware that I WFH with kids here, no attempts are made to hide this and managers also have kids so are empathetic towards situation over summer holidays. I don't see why it would need to be expressly written into the contract, though....

@user65754 I do think that having children that you can’t afford is ill advised. Childcare should come into that planning.

I understand that circumstances change though and I presume you are a single parent and it is rubbish that you are in the financial situation whereby you have to WFH and look after your children as I don’t believe that they are compatible. The answer is cheaper childcare and higher wages and that is a totally different debate to can you work whilst looking after children?

Can you 100% say that you do your job to the best of your ability and are an engaged present parent at the same time? I guarantee that you can’t and I’m sorry that your circumstances dictate that it has to be like that.

This all sounds like a perfectly sensible and reasonable set up for your role. I asked because our contract expressly states that we should have no caring responsibilities when working from home, so I suppose my question was whether people were doing it even if their contract said not to.

I've never met anyone who could 100% say they always do their job to the best of their ability and are an engaged present parent all the time 😂

What a ridiculous question.

However, I've not had any complaints about my work and my kids are happy, loved and nurtured. That's good enough for me - I don't strive to be perfect in any aspect of life.

@DontJumpInTheFountain I'm sure people do it, even if their contract says not to. But I guess this brings in bigger debates about capitalism and whether or not employers should be able to dictate these things. I think the question really does depend on the job - but if the work can be done to a decent standard, with hours worked flexibly, and without disrupting the work of others, I really do struggle to understand why it would be a problem.

@user65754 Why have you taken my stance that WFH and looking after kids aren’t compatible so personally? I’m being sympathetic to your situation.

I’m glad that you have such understanding employers. Make sure you don’t burn yourself out. Lockdown WFH with 2 young children nearly killed me so you maybe you’re just a more resilient person than I am?

All these people who are trying to juggle childcare and WFM - WFM only became widespread during the pandemic. How did you cope before then with the holidays? Childcare was still costly ......

WFH wasn't uncommon pre pandemic, though obviously escalated massively then. And the childcare sector has shrunk since. There'll be people who used to use provision that no longer exists, as well as those whose DC were young enough for nursery in Feb 2020 but have now aged out of it. As well as this there's the increased COL, so even those who could theoretically access the same childcare they used then aren't necessarily able to afford it now.

Public sector - it's rife where I am. Pay is good but not amazing (especially compared to equivalent in private sector).

(I should say that it's not acceptable - it's against our contractual terms and it means others picking up the slack. But it's not properly enforced because management are either doing it themselves or can't be arsed.)

No one has really given an adequate response to confidentiality. Especially when the children are school age - you'll be surprised what gets repeated in the playgrounds! How do you manage that?

@chopc many people were WFH before the pandemic. I've been WFH for 10 years... But I do think that more people realised it was possible during the pandemic so it is more widespread.

@Serenglas because when someone implies that you shouldn't have had children because you can't afford to put them in holiday club full time for six weeks, it is personal!

To be honest, even as someone who WFH before the pandemic, lockdown was a completely different* *situation. I'm not especially resilient, and that nearly killed me too. So if you're drawing your conclusions based on that very bizarre time, I can understand why you think the way you do. A day WFH with the kids in tow usually means getting half a days' work done in a couple of chunks, taking a break for a few hours to go to the playground or soft play (both weren't an option during lockdown 😰), and then catching up on the half a day of work that I've missed in the evening once they've gone to bed. It's definitely do-able, but appreciate not everyone would want to do it. Courses for horses, and all that...

Working from home was much more uncommon pre-pandemic compared to today. Now, a lot of jobs are hybrid that were 100% office based a few years ago.

WFH was seen as a real privilege and often reserved only for those with senior roles. If you needed to wfh one day due to a transport issue or a last minute home emergency it was seen as a massive deal! My past employer made me come in despite snow, train strikes, road closures etc etc.. now everyone there works from home entirely as they don't even have an office.

Some stats on remote working pre pandemic.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/coronavirusandhomeworkingintheuklabourmarket/2019

@Andifeelheavymetal It's not really an issue for me. I do deal with confidential information, but my kids don't have access to my laptop and I try to plan meetings for when I have childcare. If something unexpected pops up, old enough to play in a different room while I'm on a call.

At the end of the day, it matters to nobody other than the person working from home and their employer.

I can't speak for everyone but I can answer how confidentiality works in my own situation if that helps. (Therapist as stated earlier in the chat).
I have very clear boundaries that I set out with clients from the outset, I adhere to the ethical guidelines of my governing body and I assure them everything they say in session remains confidential and between only me and them unless there's a risk of harm to themselves or another. They are informed of where I am working from (home or office) and made aware that nobody else can hear what they say to me.
I use AirPods to ensure this is the case.
My children are upstairs the entire time along with my husband who wfh full time. To get downstairs they would need to pass him, so I know they aren't sneaking down to listen anyway. Even if they were they'd be very bored as they'd only really here me giving an occasional "mm-hmm" or "tell me a bit more about that..." and describing CBT tools the client may wish to use.
So it is not an issue in our house
My husband's work is all software engineering stuff and there's nothing they'd hear from him that they wouldn't be allowed to hear.
I appreciate this will depend very much on each person's own circumstances though.

*hear! Not here!

Are you transparent with them that your husband and children are in the house?