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Flexible working revoked - help!!

410 replies

Tiredofbeingtired1 · 05/08/2023 07:59

Looking for a sounding board for a problem I'm having at work. Not sure what to do really...

So, I had a baby and returned after a 9 month maternity leave, but when my son was 5 months old, I discussed my return to work with my boss (male).

(I work as a PA for two people who own and run the company)

I asked to return to work 5 days a week, but to work 2 days from home and also if I could leave at 4.30pm instead of my contracted finish of 5pm in order to pick up my son from nursery. I was told that none of this was a problem and that I didn't need to be in when my boss wasn't in (he also worked 3 days a week in the office).

So I returned to work with this set up and did absolutely everything to make this work, which included working through lunch breaks and responding to emails from 6am-10pm 7 days a week.

After 8 months of this being in place, I was told (in the middle of the office, not privately) that they were going to need to ask me to return to the office 4 days a week as they couldn't give me something they weren't giving to the rest of the staff. I was assured that this had nothing to do with my performance as they know I'm working all the time, but purely to do with what other people in the office are allowed.

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

At this point, two other women were having their working from home revoked, but they had had it for 11 and 14 years, and their children were in secondary school by this point.

In the discussions for this, my boss (female) had suggested to me that on the extra day I was being asked to work in the office, I could leave early. This was purely her idea and was even suggesting around lunchtime.

After all my protests, I was told they would get back to me...however 5 months later nobody had. As this was being requested to start in September, I approached my boss (female) last week to discuss it before my holiday, and her holiday. She seemed surprised, but thankful that I had put the wheels in motion and was making this happening and agreed that it had kind of been forgotten about (not by me, I can assure you!). When I then raised her idea of leaving early on the extra day in the office, she didn't seem to recall this conversation and actually seemed quite annoyed by it, asking "how early?". I suggested 3.30pm instead of 4.30pm, and as I could see that this request wasn't going down well, I suggested it be for the first 3 weeks to help my son settle in (as this also coincides with him moving to preschool).

She then said that we need to review my leaving at 4.30pm on other days, and would I be willing to leave at 5pm (my contracted time) instead. I said that it wasn't a case of being willing, but that if I left at that time, I wouldn't be able to make it to the nursery before they shut. She seemed in disbelief that it would take me that long to get home, but I pointed out that whilst Google might suggest it is an hour, that is if I hit all my connections and there is no traffic. In practice, this is never the case, and it it always takes me around 1 hour 20 mins.

Her reasoning for asking me to leave at 5pm was again, for parity across the office, but also in case her or my other boss need something urgent between 4.30-5pm. Whilst I understand this, in practice I don't think this is actually the case, as all day I am asked for very little and I am the proactive one asking if they need things all the time. I can't believe that something urgent would be regularly happening in the last 30 mins of the day.

She also said that if they finish a meeting after 4.30pm and I am gone, they might need something, and it's not fair on other members of staff as it puts more pressure on them. Whilst this is true, I have been back through the diaries and in the 201 days I have worked back in the office, they have had meetings that have gone beyond 4.30pm 18 times. Also, they have never had someone come to the office for a meeting that starts after 4.30pm.

Therefore I feel that this isn't a reflection of what actually happens. I can't believe that they ask for very little all day, but in that last 30 mins something urgent comes up. She also acknowledged that I am on email my whole journey home, but it's if something happens that I am needed in person. She accepted the fact I work through my lunch, and from early morning until late evening on emails, but that it was not about total hours worked.

For context, my company are very anti flexible working. I joined 3 days before lockdown in 2020, and went on maternity leave in July 2021, so had spent a massive amount of my employment working from home. They are on a drive to get people back to the office and don't want anyone working from home. They recently conducted a staff survey, and in that almost every member of the office requested more flexibility with working from home. Therefore they are begrudgingly reviewing it, but it seems they are missing the point that flexible working doesn't have to be the exact same conditions for everyone and that it is a case by case scenario.

I am unsure as to whether I am being unreasonable, or if not, how hard to push on this - especially given that I was told by my boss (male) that he asked if he could get rid of me when I told him I was pregnant!!

We are a small team and don't have an official HR department. We recently just got a freelance HR person in, but I'm unsure as to how much I trust them yet. Also, in my capacity as a PA I work very closely with my bosses and maintaining a good relationship is important. I'm not trying to rock the boat or get special privileges, but it's hard to make things work when the agreement keeps changing. I returned to work based on certain conditions and I set my life up around them.

Any advice would be so gratefully received as it is keeping me up at night!

Thank you!

OP posts:
Bluevelvetsofa · 05/08/2023 12:44

It looks as though the OP isn’t going to clarify a few things that have been asked. I’d agree with those suggesting finding a new job with a shorter commute. Businesses are there to suit the needs of the business and if the model in operation, that seems to have been a more informal arrangement, no longer suits their business model, they’re going to want to change it.

Other people’s arrangements are irrelevant. This is the situation for the OP and if it doesn’t work for her, there are two things to do. Accept it and make alternative child care arrangements or seek another job.

Hibiscrubbed · 05/08/2023 12:44

He asked to get rid of you because you were pregnant?

How the fuck are we still dealing with this shit in 2023?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/08/2023 12:45

Why is it that so many parents think that childcare is someone else’s problem??

It's a fair question; another would be why is it that, instead of being appreciative for help already given, some just expect more ... and more ... and more

As an employer I was a big fan of WFH even before it became fashionable, the only proviso being that it had to work for everyone. Sometimes though it just can't, especially if people use it to take the piss, and whining and moaning isn't going to change that fact

GoingGoingUp · 05/08/2023 12:48

Blondebutnotlegally · 05/08/2023 12:25

Exactly, so 2 extra days childcare would cost you DOUBLE what she is suggesting. A few extra hours a day is more realistic

Yes…except OP isn’t being asked to
come in every day. She’s being asked to
come in an extra day a week. So she will still have a day a week at home.

Right now it’s two days a week at home. Going forward it will be one. Not sure how you get to double the cost from that…

In any event, none of us know because Op hasn’t come back.

Newtt · 05/08/2023 12:52

Blondebutnotlegally · 05/08/2023 12:25

Exactly, so 2 extra days childcare would cost you DOUBLE what she is suggesting. A few extra hours a day is more realistic

No.
OP states she would be required in the office four days a week rather than three - which would imply one extra day in nursery.
Also, potentially still wfh one day while caring for her child???? (Rather than wfh two days a week while caring for her child...)

The child care arrangement is what really needs to be clarified before any actually useful comments could be offered to the OP.

sunglassesonthetable · 05/08/2023 12:54

They don't appreciate you enough OP.

They're disorganised. Verbal agreements etc.

You can do better.

You need a better work life balance.

Tbh as many are saying move jobs. It's their loss as you are experienced.

But in the meantime put in a FORMAL request.

You don't have to be 'grateful' to them. Work is a transaction. Find a better transaction for you.

theyareonlynoodlesmichael · 05/08/2023 12:54

Hi OP

I'm an EA to the CEO and COO. I work from home 2/3 days a week and I my working hours around nursery pick and drop. My employer is output based rather than set hours and if you can set up a system that works for your boss e.g expectations around availability and response times.
The law around flexible working has changed and the onus is now on the employer to prove why your flexible working request wouldnt work. I think because youve been working flexibly i dont see how they can argue it unless they have evidence of how its affected the business negatively. Being around 'Just in case' doesnt apply because they can text/email/teams etc.

That being said, they sound like a bunch of shitbags and I dont know how happy I would be working for them. A good employer gives back to staff in the hope the employee repays with loyalty/hard work.

whosaidtha · 05/08/2023 12:55

Why can't your partner help with nursery drop offs/pick ups?

theyareonlynoodlesmichael · 05/08/2023 12:55

I would also look at pages like pregnant then screwed etc.

afishcalledbreanda · 05/08/2023 12:57

Flexibility works both ways, you’re doing your bit, they’re not. With that attitude they’re not going to change and trying to do so will only result in lots of stress and hassle you don’t need.

Actually, it sounds as if the OP is only being flexible when it suits her. And judging from the fact that she hasn't come back, it looks very much as if she's been doing very light PAing duties while looking after her toddler. Throwing in a few minutes each evening answering emails doesn't make up for the fact that she's doing full-time childcare during working hours.

sunglassesonthetable · 05/08/2023 12:57

Why is it that so many parents think that childcare is someone else’s problem??

It's not.

But workplace cultures are changing. It's no longer here's your job. Be grateful. Get on with it.

It's a 2 way transaction. You get the best out of people if they are happy. And important ly Better retention. Flexibility is key.

You sound very old fashioned.

Gcsunnyside23 · 05/08/2023 12:59

I'd stop working over lunch and doing extra hours for a start! If they enforce it then don't work any more than you are contracted. Why 400 extra for childcare? If you are WFH but have your toddler there then you're out of order and I would say that's why they are asking you back in. Are you a single parent?

sunglassesonthetable · 05/08/2023 12:59

. A good employer gives back to staff in the hope the employee repays with loyalty/hard work.

This

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/08/2023 13:00

Just to mention for all who suggested contacting "Pregnant Then Screwed", their support services are closed until 4 September ...

Marblessolveeverything · 05/08/2023 13:10

I find PA jobs more challenging to be flexible. We need our PA to be available for the hours that potential issues can arise. So it tends to be a bit of an outlier in our organisation. 18 times needing cover is an issue as that is 18 times other work was put aside, it just wouldn't work in our organisation.

However we have a large number of roles where more flexibility is available. Typically people who require flexibility move into those roles, same wages, etc

I don't understand why you are referring to the boss as female, it really annoys me when people do that. She is a manager touting company policy being female shouldn't place extra responsibility in my opinion.

thereisnorightanswer · 05/08/2023 13:16

I think they’ve handled this badly, but ultimately, you’ve asked for flexible working to suit you, without considering the impact on the business.

Speaking as someone who used to have a PA, you have to work when your boss does. Your entire job is to make their life easier, and as soon as you start disappearing when they need you, they realise that due to all the efficiencies in technology these days, they can do without you full time.

The concept of needing a PA is getting more and more outdated. It’s therefore the sort of job where visibility is important.

I would also not tolerate someone ‘working from home’ who had a child at home at the same time and not another grown up taking responsibility for the child. If I got wind of this, you’d be back in the office every day due to the breach of trust. A one off due to the child being sick is fine. Regularly not arranging childcare to save money - not OK.

DrMorbius · 05/08/2023 13:17

How does going in to an office one extra day per week cause an increase in child care costs of £400? Surely it is only one day of wrap around care extra.

mariiiaa · 05/08/2023 13:21

Soapyspuds · 05/08/2023 10:52

Did the Op say there is one??

No. Hence somebody is asking the question.

But the poster I quoted was being arsey about the "DH" not pulling his weight when there was nothing to indicate there is a DH.

"Do you have a partner to share the load with" would have been a more appropriate question

sunglassesonthetable · 05/08/2023 13:25

If I got wind of this, you’d be back in the office every day due to the breach of trust. A one off due to the child being sick is fine. Regularly not arranging childcare to save money - not OK.

Agree with the 2nd part.

Ist part sounds like a job I'd be leaving anyway because I wouldn't want that teacher / child relationship where I worked!

mariiiaa · 05/08/2023 13:26

Gcsunnyside23 · 05/08/2023 12:59

I'd stop working over lunch and doing extra hours for a start! If they enforce it then don't work any more than you are contracted. Why 400 extra for childcare? If you are WFH but have your toddler there then you're out of order and I would say that's why they are asking you back in. Are you a single parent?

Working from home doesn't always mean someone is taking the piss by having kids with them and doing a half arsed job.

It can be that it just gives the employee more flexibility with time.

They can do the nursery or school run (often very local to the home) without the commute to work ontop.

This means they can work their contracted hours without having to factor in an extra couple of hours a day to do the school/nursery run either side.

This saves money on travel costs and the time they have to pay for extra hours/ wrap around care where the parent is travelling back from work.

Thebirdhouse · 05/08/2023 13:30

It is time to look for another job OP.
Perhaps nearer to home and for four days a week?

This company is not going to give you what you want. Even when they did, you were essentially working for free four hours a day in order to keep it.

magicalkitty · 05/08/2023 13:30

Ist part sounds like a job I'd be leaving anyway because I wouldn't want that teacher / child relationship where I worked!

All employers have a disciplinary procedure in place and will follow it if an employee breaches their contract or goes against clear company procedures.

thereisnorightanswer · 05/08/2023 13:33

sunglassesonthetable · 05/08/2023 13:25

If I got wind of this, you’d be back in the office every day due to the breach of trust. A one off due to the child being sick is fine. Regularly not arranging childcare to save money - not OK.

Agree with the 2nd part.

Ist part sounds like a job I'd be leaving anyway because I wouldn't want that teacher / child relationship where I worked!

It’s been standard everywhere I’ve worked. You get treated like a grown up with as much freedom as your role has to offer… unless you take the piss.

Regularly providing childcare whilst “working” is taking the piss. It also makes it harder for the women who do actually work from home properly as it gives the impression no one can work from home effectively.

I completely understand someone wanting to work from home if they live near the nursery - it saves on their travel time before/after work. Doesn’t impact on the business but makes life easier for the employee.

I don’t understand anyone thinking it’s reasonable to work from home
and be the childcare. You cannot do both things well at the same time.

EbiRaisukaree · 05/08/2023 13:37

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 05/08/2023 12:08

Also arm's reach government bodies - Environment Agency, National Highways, Natural England or their Scottish and Welsh equivalents.

I'd be working to rule too. No more out of hours emails or phone calls.

I work in one of these. Your contract states you must have childcare when wfh.

Cocacolathanks · 05/08/2023 13:39

I would leave and get a better job. They don’t appreciate you.