Flexible working revoked - help!!

[Tiredofbeingtired1]

Looking for a sounding board for a problem I'm having at work. Not sure what to do really...

So, I had a baby and returned after a 9 month maternity leave, but when my son was 5 months old, I discussed my return to work with my boss (male).

(I work as a PA for two people who own and run the company)

I asked to return to work 5 days a week, but to work 2 days from home and also if I could leave at 4.30pm instead of my contracted finish of 5pm in order to pick up my son from nursery. I was told that none of this was a problem and that I didn't need to be in when my boss wasn't in (he also worked 3 days a week in the office).

So I returned to work with this set up and did absolutely everything to make this work, which included working through lunch breaks and responding to emails from 6am-10pm 7 days a week.

After 8 months of this being in place, I was told (in the middle of the office, not privately) that they were going to need to ask me to return to the office 4 days a week as they couldn't give me something they weren't giving to the rest of the staff. I was assured that this had nothing to do with my performance as they know I'm working all the time, but purely to do with what other people in the office are allowed.

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

At this point, two other women were having their working from home revoked, but they had had it for 11 and 14 years, and their children were in secondary school by this point.

In the discussions for this, my boss (female) had suggested to me that on the extra day I was being asked to work in the office, I could leave early. This was purely her idea and was even suggesting around lunchtime.

After all my protests, I was told they would get back to me...however 5 months later nobody had. As this was being requested to start in September, I approached my boss (female) last week to discuss it before my holiday, and her holiday. She seemed surprised, but thankful that I had put the wheels in motion and was making this happening and agreed that it had kind of been forgotten about (not by me, I can assure you!). When I then raised her idea of leaving early on the extra day in the office, she didn't seem to recall this conversation and actually seemed quite annoyed by it, asking "how early?". I suggested 3.30pm instead of 4.30pm, and as I could see that this request wasn't going down well, I suggested it be for the first 3 weeks to help my son settle in (as this also coincides with him moving to preschool).

She then said that we need to review my leaving at 4.30pm on other days, and would I be willing to leave at 5pm (my contracted time) instead. I said that it wasn't a case of being willing, but that if I left at that time, I wouldn't be able to make it to the nursery before they shut. She seemed in disbelief that it would take me that long to get home, but I pointed out that whilst Google might suggest it is an hour, that is if I hit all my connections and there is no traffic. In practice, this is never the case, and it it always takes me around 1 hour 20 mins.

Her reasoning for asking me to leave at 5pm was again, for parity across the office, but also in case her or my other boss need something urgent between 4.30-5pm. Whilst I understand this, in practice I don't think this is actually the case, as all day I am asked for very little and I am the proactive one asking if they need things all the time. I can't believe that something urgent would be regularly happening in the last 30 mins of the day.

She also said that if they finish a meeting after 4.30pm and I am gone, they might need something, and it's not fair on other members of staff as it puts more pressure on them. Whilst this is true, I have been back through the diaries and in the 201 days I have worked back in the office, they have had meetings that have gone beyond 4.30pm 18 times. Also, they have never had someone come to the office for a meeting that starts after 4.30pm.

Therefore I feel that this isn't a reflection of what actually happens. I can't believe that they ask for very little all day, but in that last 30 mins something urgent comes up. She also acknowledged that I am on email my whole journey home, but it's if something happens that I am needed in person. She accepted the fact I work through my lunch, and from early morning until late evening on emails, but that it was not about total hours worked.

For context, my company are very anti flexible working. I joined 3 days before lockdown in 2020, and went on maternity leave in July 2021, so had spent a massive amount of my employment working from home. They are on a drive to get people back to the office and don't want anyone working from home. They recently conducted a staff survey, and in that almost every member of the office requested more flexibility with working from home. Therefore they are begrudgingly reviewing it, but it seems they are missing the point that flexible working doesn't have to be the exact same conditions for everyone and that it is a case by case scenario.

I am unsure as to whether I am being unreasonable, or if not, how hard to push on this - especially given that I was told by my boss (male) that he asked if he could get rid of me when I told him I was pregnant!!

We are a small team and don't have an official HR department. We recently just got a freelance HR person in, but I'm unsure as to how much I trust them yet. Also, in my capacity as a PA I work very closely with my bosses and maintaining a good relationship is important. I'm not trying to rock the boat or get special privileges, but it's hard to make things work when the agreement keeps changing. I returned to work based on certain conditions and I set my life up around them.

Any advice would be so gratefully received as it is keeping me up at night!

Thank you!

Has any of this been in writing?
By that I mean your requests, and their responses?

In your position I’d be looking for another job, I think.

think your bosses are being incredibly inflexible and turning a blind eye to the impossible situation this puts you in

why is it that so many parents think that childcare is someone else’s problem?? No. The fact that she has chosen an hour and a half commute and can’t afford the amount of childcare she needs is no one else’s problem but hers!!

My in laws are exactly the same. Unprepared to pay for childcare like the rest of us and then kick off when grandparents have the temerity to go on holiday. Same vibe.

The only solution here is to look for another job. They won’t change their policy or stance on this just for you and it sounds like the relationship is already becoming fractured. Leave quickly.

“I returned to work based on certain conditions and I set my life up around them.”

I would go from there and negotiate hard for the hours you need. You took their word as their bond and you were told that this was possible.
Stick to this point. Others haven’t and were not promised anything by your bosses.

I had a flexible shift at work when others didn’t and I didn’t even have a baby, but dh worked evenings so if I didn’t leave at 4.30 I wouldn’t be able to see him all night, and especially if I got caught in 5pm traffic. My manager agreed (as I was doing twice as much work as most people anyway and she didn’t want to lose me)
When other people in the office and other managers even complained she had my back.
I often logged back into work and checked anything urgent needing to be done from home.

See if you can be allowed some time to work from home that evening should anything be required? I asked for extra time coming into work earlier, which eventually became a norm as others wanted it too.
It could be they are fighting what this opens up for everyone else and want to make an example of you.

For anyone thinking of posting, there are 8 pages of people arguing with each other already, but the OP hasn't actually returned since their first post..

i also think YABU

i also read the £400 as to cover one extra day of childcare (not related to any late pickup, as OP moves on to that later). Unfortunately I think OP has been wfh while juggling childcare and the employer isn’t happy with this.

my work would also struggle with someone being unavailable in the last hour of the working day as an informal arrangement, regardless of whether they were able to pick up emails later. And I wouldn’t even be confident that a formal working request would be successful.

its in the event of rare occasions that something does crop up and need doing, the person doing those roles needs to be available.

I feel for you OP, I am in a similar position where my boss had informally OK'd 4 compressed days instead of 5 and then has now rejected it via HR using a load of reasons which are basically the absolute worst case scenario of what could happen on my one day off.

I feel very stuck and unsure what to do, I was relying on that day at home with my baby. It doesn't make you feel like a valued employee when they catastrophise as if you'd drop all your work instantly to have your day off. I've worked for this company for 4 years and never failed to complete a piece of work ever, have worked evenings, weekends etc. Makes me feel shit about how much they value me as an employee.

I would advise you look for another job first and Foremost

in the meantime I would suggest that you prepare a case for you to adjust hours/pay etc to ensure that you get what you need and they get the hours they pay you for

so. Show them that you start at x time and that you work through your lunch and therefore that you are working the same hours per day but adjusting so that you work the hours AND meet your hard set commitments outside of work.

If nobody else has your role then you can demonstrate that there already isn’t parity in circumstances as you often need to flex to accommodate both bosses

show them and demonstrate that despite WFH you’re committed to making sure that you cover what needs to be covered, answer what needs to be answered and actually you work more hours than they pay you for. Give examples where your employer flexibility has been repaid by you going above and beyond for them.

if you do end up needing to come in and stay until 5, then absolutely make sure that you DONT ever come in early, to the minute, don’t ever take less than your lunch break and leave on the dot with not a second of flex.

I think it may not come to that. Replacing a PA is very hard. They have to get up to speed and know how each boss likes to work, live etc

Honestly? I’d leave but see about flexible working requests.

As a PA though when you leave is the time I’d get and do get asked to do tasks and maybe there’s not much work if you’re asking them for work do maybe you’re being managed out.

Central/local gov snd some private companies are more flexible working friendly.

Look for another job closer to home and leave. This company seems set in its ways and is unlikely to give you the flexibility that you could get in other companies. The commute time seems overly long, I would be looking for something closer to the nursery.

Cantstaystuckforever
I don't think they're coming back. Can't think why...

OP will need to either work their contracted hours and pay appropriate childcare or they need to look for a more appropriate job.

You need to find another job. Flexibility works both ways, you’re doing your bit, they’re not. With that attitude they’re not going to change and trying to do so will only result in lots of stress and hassle you don’t need.

I left one employer because of this sort of attitude and joined one where the boss told me in interview “It’s more important to me to get the right person in the job than the hours they work” and I also appreciated that, occasionally working on my off days if it was necessary and answering the phone when I wasn’t at work if there was something urgent for instance. Of course your employer wants to avoid having someone take the piss but treating people like adults and showing them respect and trying flexibility results in much more motivated employees so it’s their loss. Hope you find something soon x

Sounds like other employees are also wanting similar levels of flexibility and are also maybe having to pick up some of the OP's work when she's not there. A small proportion of WFH/flexible workers is just about manageable in a small firm, but when most staff want it, it becomes unsustainable.

I'd echo other posters and say it's time for the OP to start looking for a new job, maybe one that actually offers WFH/flexibility, or one much closer to home. Such a long commute is always going to be problematic.

I think YANBU things cost enough as it is, they’re not appreciative of you - find somewhere that is.

You really need to clarify the extra £400 comments. If you're looking after your toddler while you're WFH, it could very easily be considered gross misconduct in a lot of places, and that really stunts your options.

It also means that moving jobs could be difficult; because you will struggle to find an employer that will allow this, and it's outright stated in a lot of contracts these days.

It is a really rubbish situation; but they appear to be clear that they're not happy to be flexible, and have never been; and they are showing you no loyalty - they've outright told you that they tried to get rid of you when you were pregnant, and they're doing nothing to keep you now. Infact, a cynic would say that they're trying to force you out without having to actually do anything.

But your options are really going to depend on that first question...

Also arm's reach government bodies - Environment Agency, National Highways, Natural England or their Scottish and Welsh equivalents.

I'd be working to rule too. No more out of hours emails or phone calls.

Tiredofbeingtired1
I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

As a number of PP's have already asked, do you have childcare for the days you work from home?
It is perfectly reasonable for an employer to expect employees NOT to have caring responsibilities during work hours.

If you are the main carer for your children on wfh days, you may think you are just as efficient, but the reality for your colleagues may not be the same...

Or, it may be that other wfh members of staff are the problem, so they have initiated the generic 'everyone in the office four days a week' for ease of avoiding a discrimination claim.

Ultimately, if your employer wants everyone in the office for four days a week (rather than three), you just need to find a new job that suites you.

Do be prepared for the possibility a new employer will request proof of childcare on wfh days though...

Easy. Both I and my husband worked based from home(different organisations) he had a secretary who was remote as did I. We used technology…nothing made it impossible.

Exactly, so 2 extra days childcare would cost you DOUBLE what she is suggesting. A few extra hours a day is more realistic

Apply for a new job

Same here. My boss generally WFH and we keep in touch with teams. The world has changed

YABU

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

I mean, children are an expensive lifestyle choice. Though your boss shouldn’t have worded it in that sense.

Is working from home a contractual agreement? If not, they can uphold your contract and tell you to come to the office regardless of your childcare costs. No employment tribunal would rule in your favour here. Home working is not an entitlement if it isn’t in your contract. What’s the designated place of work on your contract? If it’s the office, you have no leg to stand on.

as for leaving early etc, raise a flexible working hours request.

ultimately the question is if you can deliver the work they expect you to in your contracted hours. It is NOT healthy to work through your lunch or from 6am to 10pm. They want you to do a 9-5 day is it? They want you to complete your work during the day and not take on unpaid overtime. It is not good from a staff wellbeing perspective and I do genuinely wonder whether you can balance a full time job at this time. Start applying for remote roles too.

The world has started to change back though, with many companies realising that face to face meetings and collaboration is more effective than virtual meetings.

told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

'Told effectively' doesn't mean that's what they said. They probably said that her childcare costs and arrangements are not the company's problem.