Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flexible working revoked - help!!

410 replies

Tiredofbeingtired1 · 05/08/2023 07:59

Looking for a sounding board for a problem I'm having at work. Not sure what to do really...

So, I had a baby and returned after a 9 month maternity leave, but when my son was 5 months old, I discussed my return to work with my boss (male).

(I work as a PA for two people who own and run the company)

I asked to return to work 5 days a week, but to work 2 days from home and also if I could leave at 4.30pm instead of my contracted finish of 5pm in order to pick up my son from nursery. I was told that none of this was a problem and that I didn't need to be in when my boss wasn't in (he also worked 3 days a week in the office).

So I returned to work with this set up and did absolutely everything to make this work, which included working through lunch breaks and responding to emails from 6am-10pm 7 days a week.

After 8 months of this being in place, I was told (in the middle of the office, not privately) that they were going to need to ask me to return to the office 4 days a week as they couldn't give me something they weren't giving to the rest of the staff. I was assured that this had nothing to do with my performance as they know I'm working all the time, but purely to do with what other people in the office are allowed.

I had many discussions with them about the impact of this on me, and that it would cost me almost an extra £400 in childcare costs per month, to which I was told effectively that if I can't afford to have kids, I shouldn't have them.

At this point, two other women were having their working from home revoked, but they had had it for 11 and 14 years, and their children were in secondary school by this point.

In the discussions for this, my boss (female) had suggested to me that on the extra day I was being asked to work in the office, I could leave early. This was purely her idea and was even suggesting around lunchtime.

After all my protests, I was told they would get back to me...however 5 months later nobody had. As this was being requested to start in September, I approached my boss (female) last week to discuss it before my holiday, and her holiday. She seemed surprised, but thankful that I had put the wheels in motion and was making this happening and agreed that it had kind of been forgotten about (not by me, I can assure you!). When I then raised her idea of leaving early on the extra day in the office, she didn't seem to recall this conversation and actually seemed quite annoyed by it, asking "how early?". I suggested 3.30pm instead of 4.30pm, and as I could see that this request wasn't going down well, I suggested it be for the first 3 weeks to help my son settle in (as this also coincides with him moving to preschool).

She then said that we need to review my leaving at 4.30pm on other days, and would I be willing to leave at 5pm (my contracted time) instead. I said that it wasn't a case of being willing, but that if I left at that time, I wouldn't be able to make it to the nursery before they shut. She seemed in disbelief that it would take me that long to get home, but I pointed out that whilst Google might suggest it is an hour, that is if I hit all my connections and there is no traffic. In practice, this is never the case, and it it always takes me around 1 hour 20 mins.

Her reasoning for asking me to leave at 5pm was again, for parity across the office, but also in case her or my other boss need something urgent between 4.30-5pm. Whilst I understand this, in practice I don't think this is actually the case, as all day I am asked for very little and I am the proactive one asking if they need things all the time. I can't believe that something urgent would be regularly happening in the last 30 mins of the day.

She also said that if they finish a meeting after 4.30pm and I am gone, they might need something, and it's not fair on other members of staff as it puts more pressure on them. Whilst this is true, I have been back through the diaries and in the 201 days I have worked back in the office, they have had meetings that have gone beyond 4.30pm 18 times. Also, they have never had someone come to the office for a meeting that starts after 4.30pm.

Therefore I feel that this isn't a reflection of what actually happens. I can't believe that they ask for very little all day, but in that last 30 mins something urgent comes up. She also acknowledged that I am on email my whole journey home, but it's if something happens that I am needed in person. She accepted the fact I work through my lunch, and from early morning until late evening on emails, but that it was not about total hours worked.

For context, my company are very anti flexible working. I joined 3 days before lockdown in 2020, and went on maternity leave in July 2021, so had spent a massive amount of my employment working from home. They are on a drive to get people back to the office and don't want anyone working from home. They recently conducted a staff survey, and in that almost every member of the office requested more flexibility with working from home. Therefore they are begrudgingly reviewing it, but it seems they are missing the point that flexible working doesn't have to be the exact same conditions for everyone and that it is a case by case scenario.

I am unsure as to whether I am being unreasonable, or if not, how hard to push on this - especially given that I was told by my boss (male) that he asked if he could get rid of me when I told him I was pregnant!!

We are a small team and don't have an official HR department. We recently just got a freelance HR person in, but I'm unsure as to how much I trust them yet. Also, in my capacity as a PA I work very closely with my bosses and maintaining a good relationship is important. I'm not trying to rock the boat or get special privileges, but it's hard to make things work when the agreement keeps changing. I returned to work based on certain conditions and I set my life up around them.

Any advice would be so gratefully received as it is keeping me up at night!

Thank you!

OP posts:
Blondebutnotlegally · 05/08/2023 10:27

GirlOfTudor · 05/08/2023 10:15

I haven't read the whole post, but yes, it is something you should've considered before having your child. If it doesn't work out with this employer, start looking for a new job who are more flexible. Maybe look for suggestions from fellow parents or via friendly contacts. It might be difficult, but unfortunately we do have to make sacrifices as parents.

🙄 if everyone were than inflexible with working parents, either mums couldn't work or people couldn't have children.

zingally · 05/08/2023 10:28

Start looking for new employment.

Staff are infinitely replaceable. I learnt this the hard way when I AGONISED over leaving a job at a difficult time of year. I eventually handed my notice in, and then learnt that my replacement was signed up probably barely 36 hours later. Employers don't care.

Oloi · 05/08/2023 10:38

They want someone to work the hours they need covered. You don't seem to do that for them. They don't care if you work on emails at 10pm, as the requirement is to be present until 5pm.

UWOT1 · 05/08/2023 10:39

Contact ACAS for advice. Start looking for another job.

If you are still returning calls and taking email 6am-10pm 7 days STOP. You aren't paid to do that. They want you to be like everyone else in the office then do that. Do your 9 - 5. Work shouldn't take over your life and impinge on every waking hour.

Itsnotrightbutitsok · 05/08/2023 10:42

mariiiaa · 05/08/2023 10:15

Flexible working requests have sweet FA to do with other employees and whinging that it isn't fair.

It's between the employee and employer and what's workable.

And the employer has said no.

OP was fine with this before having a baby and until he was 5 months old, so obviously had a plan.

I’d be very thankful that they’d saved me 8 months of extra childcare.

If you work FT there is only so much flexibility an employer can give.

Even if OP found a job wfh FT she’d still need FT childcare.

DNLove · 05/08/2023 10:44

You've been given a level of flexibility to adapt to life with a child by your employer. I think the issue is that nothing was formalised and I'd guess they expected something short term and you expected it to go on forever.
If you are happy working there I'd change the creche to one that opens later. 6pm closing sounds a bit early.
If your incremental costs are coming because your child is home with you on the days you work from home then I'm totally on their side. Working from home is not an alternative to childcare, especially with a young child. Working from home when a 10 year old is coming home from school, getting their own lunch and watching some TV /doing homework is very different to taking full time care of a toddler that spends most of time trying to injure themselves.

Soapyspuds · 05/08/2023 10:52

Did the Op say there is one??

No. Hence somebody is asking the question.

AnneAnon · 05/08/2023 10:53

Don’t think she’s coming back anyway. Wonder why.

LolaSmiles · 05/08/2023 10:57

£400 a month is £20 a day. If leaving at 4.30 means she can get to nursery by 6, but leaving at 5 means she can't get there till 6.30 then £20 doesn't seem like an unreasonable late pick up fee - or the cost of asking someone else to pick up the child and look after him.
£400 a month could easily be two days a week childcare depending on the region and childcare provider.

I'm not sure any nursery would be happy with a parent using the late pick up fine routinely to avoid sorting proper childcare out for their hours.

I'm not sure the OP will be back, but people taking a lend with WFH and flexible working make it much, much harder for the many people who do work properly from home/flexibly.

QueenoftheNimbleFlyingCat · 05/08/2023 10:58

OP I would call pregnant and screwed to discuss this as it does seem unfair on the face of it.

In reality I would look for another job and just do your contracted hours. No more going above and beyond, do your 9-5 and no answering emails outside of this, companies think that they can get loyalty and goodwill from staff without giving anything but sod that.

Rupiduti · 05/08/2023 10:59

Tbh you are contracted til 5pm and are asking to leave at 3:30? That's 1.5 hours early.. I don't blame them for not allowing it. I think there can be flexibility but it shouldn't be at the expense of other people. Is there another parent to the child? Where do they fall in all of this?

oatmilk4breakfast · 05/08/2023 10:59

I’m sorry I can’t help but strongly recommend you have a look at the Working Families website and try and get a call with one of their highly experienced employment lawyers. It’s so shit and you’re bending over backwards. To be honest I would be looking for a different job but in the meantime, call Working Families.

sunsethorizon · 05/08/2023 10:59

They sound really inflexible on working hours and I think asking you to stay past 16.30 “just in case” is a bit ridiculous. Unless there are clear examples of emergency situations which regularly arise after 16.30, which obviously isn’t the case.

I think you’d find a lot of employers who would be much more flexible on the working hours. And given your current role isn’t even that convenient (long commute etc) I think it’s worth looking for alternatives.

However where I think you might struggle even with other employers is WFH with your toddler, I don’t think most organisations would allow this. At best they may turn a blind eye (I know anecdotally of people who do this and haven’t got in trouble for it) but many will actively say in their policies that it is not permitted.

Batalax · 05/08/2023 11:16

I suspect others have actually asked for the same flexibility and they don’t want to give it - particularly if it means others will drop childcare on those days too.

OhwhyOY · 05/08/2023 11:18

This happened to me with my old boss who ignored the fact that I had a formally agreed flexible working agreement in place which meant I could work entirely remotely but come in when I felt it necessary (e.g. for important external meetings). He tried to make me come in four days a week with a week's notice of this change, despite the fact that my distance from the office meant I would have needed to do three overnight stays and somehow magically arrange childcare for my daughter for those overnights. Also was heavily pregnant, had caring responsibilities etc etc. Totally unreasonable. He too used the justification of others also wanting to work flexibly and needing to be fair - ignoring the fact that my agreement was already in place and due to specific circumstances plus met the business needs of my role. My advice is firstly change job, their attitude socks and they will not change. Secondly as others have said consult ACAS so you understand all the rules. Some useful tips elsewhere in this thread also. I'd present it to them as - I love this job and keen to stay, hope youre happy with my work. We made an agreement and whilst I'm happy to be flexible I can't manage X (e.g. 1700 finish) so if you continue to push this I will need to look for a new job, though I really don't want to.' Also you can mention the rules on flexible working to support your argument. Good luck!

loveandpoprockz · 05/08/2023 11:18

I think your bosses are being incredibly inflexible and turning a blind eye to the impossible situation this puts you in. Bit good luck getting any sympathy from anyone on mums net when it comes to wfh. It’s full of people who don’t wfh and are jealous of those who already are. I think organisations that push for people to work in the office 5 days a week are incredibly backwards and behind the times.
Covid changed the way people view work and saw the difference that wfh could make to their lives.
As for your situation OP I don’t think you are going to get anywhere with this and would advise you to put all your efforts into finding an employer who is willing to be more flexible. Good luck 🤞

BruceAndNosh · 05/08/2023 11:21

It would be useful if the OP clarified what childcare she pays for on her WFH days

magicalkitty · 05/08/2023 11:21

I don't see much point in further replies to this thread unless the OP returns and clarifies a few things.

charabang · 05/08/2023 11:22

Contact ACAS, start working your contracted hours and more. No responding to emails after 5pm etc... then look for a new job anticipating the joyful day when you can tell them to shove it up their arse.

Oloi · 05/08/2023 11:25

charabang · 05/08/2023 11:22

Contact ACAS, start working your contracted hours and more. No responding to emails after 5pm etc... then look for a new job anticipating the joyful day when you can tell them to shove it up their arse.

'Start working your contracted hours' is precisely what the OP doesn't actually want to do!!

LolaSmiles · 05/08/2023 11:25

think your bosses are being incredibly inflexible and turning a blind eye to the impossible situation this puts you in. Bit good luck getting any sympathy from anyone on mums net when it comes to wfh. It’s full of people who don’t wfh and are jealous of those who already are. I think organisations that push for people to work in the office 5 days a week are incredibly backwards and behind the times
Lots of people are perfectly happy with WFH and flexible working arrangements, when people are working.

Most of the pushback on WFH is when people are, for example, wanting to WFH with a toddler so they don't have to pay for childcare, both parents WFH with children at home and hope they don't have meetings at the same time, WFH but the school run takes longer than their "I work through my lunch" time so it's impossible to get work done for the last part of the day because they know their colleagues are doing the school run and sorting their children out.

It isn't about jealousy. It's often from either people who don't WFH and find they experience difficulties with colleagues who 'work' from home, or they're people who do work from home/have flexible working patterns and don't want the piss takers of the world prompting a huge push back to the office.

GoingGoingUp · 05/08/2023 11:29

Blondebutnotlegally · 05/08/2023 10:25

The extra few hours a day childcare plus extra for having early/later hours. (Normal where I am) not to mention here in SE we are paying 7/8 an hour for childcare and 400 for 2 days of full childcare would be an insane bargain and really unrealistic!

In my area of London, none of the nurseries offer extra hours and it’s around £90 a day for nursery. With OP claiming an extra day in the office means an extra £400 in childcare, it does sound like OP has been keeping her child at home.

On the other hand, it could be the cost of wraparound care if she can’t be back by 6pm.

OP really needs to clarify but not coming back does suggest it’s the former.

afishcalledbreanda · 05/08/2023 11:30

Tbh you are contracted til 5pm and are asking to leave at 3:30? That's 1.5 hours early..

The OP says this:
In the discussions for this, my boss (female) had suggested to me that on the extra day I was being asked to work in the office, I could leave early. This was purely her idea and was even suggesting around lunchtime.

I think the accusations that her employers are shits who are exploiting her are very wide of the mark. This sounds to me like a small business that's developed fairly informally on the wing with a freelance HR consultant when required. There seem to be two principles who aren't singing from the same hymn sheet — always a nightmare in a small business. One tells you one thing, the other contradicts it. It sounds as if the principles appointed the OP as PA to assist them, then learned to manage pretty much without her (she mentions that she's chasing them all the time for work) while she was on maternity leave and have now, post-Covid, started thinking about consolidating and firming things up. If she's not got a lot of work to do at the moment (which she suggests in her OP) then perhaps their plan is to develop her role and give her more responsibilities once she's back in the office.

GoingGoingUp · 05/08/2023 11:31

Except we don’t know if the formal working arrangement was formal or informal.

Swipe left for the next trending thread