Biological truth should be taught to children?

[Tryingmuchharder]

AIBU for thinking that biological truth should be taught to children rather than trans ideology.... men can give birth, people can change sex, etc etc.

A teacher was suspended and appealed and recently his appealed was overturned. He was sacked for 'misgendering' a girl by calling her a girl rather than a boy. He taught biological fact and not ideology so was sacked.

Surely biological facts should be taught to our children? AIBU

He was supposed to be teaching maths. What part if the maths curriculum has stuff other than maths?

Is PSHE still taught by form teachers?

They're correct in the "children can't change sex" opinion - and that isn't even an opinion. It's a fact. No-one can can change their biological identity. However, they can change theirgender.

What is a gender?

If a boy changes his gender and says he's a girl should he be allowed to be in girls changing rooms and girls accommodation if there is a school residential? What about if he is 14 / 15 when he says he is girl gender?

The heartbreaking irony is that your dd and yourself were doing harm my affirming her delusion. It's not kind and it's not helpful to mental health.

@NewNovember

The heartbreaking irony is that your dd and yourself were doing harm my affirming her delusion. It's not kind and it's not helpful to mental health.

I've ignored every other comment about this situation - all of them berating my DD for respecting her flatmate's preference, particularly as her mental health was so tenuous - but this one bothers me. My DD was endlessly kind at the expense of herself. Sometimes I didn't want her to be but I'm proud of her. Don't ever say she was doing harm. She was only doing what she could in a tough situation.

The heartbreaking irony is that your dd and yourself were doing harm my affirming her delusion. It's not kind and it's not helpful to mental health.

Such utter tosh. Referring to someone as they/them is no more difficult than remembering they've changed their surname or title. It's really not in that hard, and generally people are done if you slip up sometimes. Repeatedly calling someone by the wrong name, title or pronoun, deliberately, is just in disrespectful. It's also not a delusion. It could be a political rejection of gender - GC by another name! This person could be agender like me. (Though I don't care about pronouns)

Anyway where is OP? This was supposed to be about the teacher who was rightly barred from teaching. Is anyone going to concede they were wrong about that or are we just ignoring that point now you've lost?

This person could be agender like me. (Though I don't care about pronouns)

Agender 😀.
#notliketheothergirls

2 points.

1. Some people, especially those who are neurodivergent will find it very hard to use they / them or pronouns that are the opposite to those they see with their eyes. Pronouns are not just a matter of respect, they are an acknowledgement that you agree with something that you may not agree with, in other words, you refer to yourself as you wish but expecting others to lie about what they see is compelled speech. They are also not benign when used with children, social transition can be hard to back down from and can lead to harmful future pathways.
2. This guy may have been rightfully dismissed for things that are not to do with gender. Stop trying to police discussion about the broader point that biological truth should be taught in schools and that belief gender can be harmful to women and children (especially female children).

And @Ladybrrrd do you think that a teenage boy who decides he is girl gender should use the girls loos, change with teenage girls and stay with the girls on a school residential?

Repeatedly calling someone by the wrong name, title or pronoun, deliberately, is just in disrespectful. It's also not a delusion. It could be a political rejection of gender - GC by another name! This person could be agender like me.

Wrong name: maybe disrespectful.

Wrong honorific: possibly, if it’s a genuinely earned honorific, but not if someone has claimed an honorific that isn’t correct.

Wrong pronoun: there’s no such thing. 3rd person pronouns are sex-based, always have been and the English-speaking world hasn’t all given our permission to change that rule. So there is only the pronoun that determines the sex of the person being talked about.

A political rejection of gender would subscribe to the realities of sex as a starter, because it’s sex discrimination that determines one’s behaviour.

We are all agender. There’s your sex, and your personality.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/teacher-misconduct-panel-outcome-mr-joshua-sutcliffe

Read the full report before you sign any petition...

Agender 😀.
#notliketheothergirls

Yeah, as in an agender female/woman. Like you I'm assuming, I don't feel any 'gender', but know my sex, and I say 'agender' as a political choice because I don't believe in gender or gendered things. I don't want the way I dress to be associated with what 'gender' I am. But it's not that important to me and gender is very important to some others.

The whole discussion is fairly new and it's no surprise to me that people are experimenting with what they are called and how they present themselves.
Let's say for example, The vast majority of women for example remove body hair in some way - even if it's only sometimes. They've only VERY recently shown an advert for razors with any visible hair on it! And I've never seen a female lead in a film with any at all. Even women in combat zones or outside civilizations somehow have smooth pits.
What if you're a woman who doesn't want to remove any body hair at all. Doesn't it make sense for those women to look around at what others are doing, and say 'I don't fit in here'?

What if you're a biological male who wants to wear skirts and blouses and look pretty. Do you really expect that society would be kind? Wouldn't the FWR board be calling him a pervert? It makes sense to me that such a person may think 'well real men don't do that/want those things so I'm not a man'.

Social expectations of the sexes may be bullshit that we want to be rid of, but they are very powerful. I applaud people who are trying to fuck with expectations and experiment. The whole point of the message is that sex==gender==presentation. The LGBTQ+ community is the one showing me hairy pits on female bodies, dresses and make up on male bodies. They are the ones challenging the expectations. They might be using different language, but who cares. The message is be who you are and I can't help but get behind it.

I agree with this breakdown

As notbad said - we are all agender. You have your sex and you have - in a lengthy way- described your personality

A silly made up example but

If I go to work and tell my employers and colleagues I forever want to be addressed as God is that OK?

Or a pigeon or a man on Thursdays but a woman the rest of week? is this all OK?

Social expectations of the sexes may be bullshit that we want to be rid of, but they areverypowerful. I applaud people who are trying to fuck with expectations and experiment.

I think most people who consider themselves gender critical would feel the same.

The issue is that we are supposed to accept this expression means that women/ girls no longer have the right to single sex spaces or sports. I mean a woman was told that there is no single sex rape crisis support in Brighton any more! https://twitter.com/SarahSurviving/status/1586256979822944257

And we're supposed to accept that expression of gender means that teenage/ young adult girls go on to have radical elective mastectomies because their bodies are wrong.

This has gone beyond wear what you want.

The LGBTQ+ community is the one showing me hairy pits on female bodies, dresses and make up on male bodies. They are the ones challenging the expectations. They might be using different language, but who cares. The message is be who you are and I can't help but get behind it.

But this is bullshit. The TQ community is telling the world that a female having hairy pits makes them a man. They’re not challenging expectations, they’re reinforcing the stereotypes by applying them rigidly as opposites. They’re not saying “be who you are” at all, haven’t you been paying attention? They’re saying “if this is who you are or how you want to be, it actually makes you this.” There is no one in the LGBTQ+ community role modelling to young girls that they can dress/present how they want and it makes them a normal girl/woman who refuses to conform. They’re all describing themselves as “gender fluid”, “non-binary” or “queer”.

dresses and make up on male bodies.

Can you provide an example of a male in the LGBTQ+ community who wears a dress and make up but describes themselves as man, instead of a woman because of these things?

In this case I do agree his ideology was inappropriate. Religion shouldn't be pushed by a maths teacher.
By the same token though the school should not ever put him in a position where its possible to out a trans child. Other children should not be lied to about the sex of their classmate so in a sense he was right to out them. The school was pushing their ideology just as he was and both are wrong.

And @Ladybrrrd do you think that a teenage boy who decides he is girl gender should use the girls loos, change with teenage girls and stay with the girls on a school residential?

I do struggle with this. As I have said I am GC myself, just not trans exclusionary. I think that would be a very individual decision and one that would have to be thought about carefully. If the young person sincerely and continually presented and identified in that manner then something would have to be put in to place as they would not be safe or comfortable in the boys.

I guess at first I would say that a third space would need to be found, but if it really is sincere and persistent then with proper safeguards and discussion with them and the rest of the girls, I think they should be where they identify. Most changing rooms have cubicles nowadays anyway. I'm always really wary of this as when I was a young, quite butch thing in the changing rooms I was forced to get changed in the toilets. The other girls thought I was staring at them and that I was a threat. it's a horrible feeling.

Whatever happens with the individual school (and it would have to be case by case basis) I would want the young person's identity and chosen name etc respected.

Males can't give birth, men can. Genetics and biology should be taught, and social truths should be too.

It doesn't harm anyone to use the right pronouns and to not be obtuse when discussing gender. Many people on these kinds of threads just want a fight, it's pathetic. We can all keep our rights and be nice to each other, and if you don't feel safe or represented it's not trans people's fault, it's a bigger issue stemming from goverment and society that needs to be tackled on a wider scale.

This this this and it is so offensive to me.

So the boy's feelings (because of gender) would be more important than the safety and dignity of the girls? And the wishes of the girls would never even be a consideration?

Because even on a case by case basis a girl's right to single sex spaces should be sacrosanct.

This is just putting males first. This notion that a girl who doesn't conform with gender stereotypes is equally unwelcome is nonsense by the way. It is not that girls don't want to share with ungirly girls, it's that they don't want to share with males (and for good reason).

The TQ community is telling the world that a female having hairy pits makes them a man.

I am very deep in the TQ community and that's just not true. What do you think the genderbread man's about? Sex==gender==presentation! The message from the queer community is 'present how you like'. The message from the FWR board is 'if your husband puts on a thong or makeup then he is AGP and you should leave him. '

Oops that sex/gender/presentation thing is meant to have slashes in between the equals (as in not equal).