Biological truth should be taught to children?

[Tryingmuchharder]

AIBU for thinking that biological truth should be taught to children rather than trans ideology.... men can give birth, people can change sex, etc etc.

A teacher was suspended and appealed and recently his appealed was overturned. He was sacked for 'misgendering' a girl by calling her a girl rather than a boy. He taught biological fact and not ideology so was sacked.

Surely biological facts should be taught to our children? AIBU

@nolongersurprised

They don’t think children can change sex, and vehemently disagree with compelled speech.

They're correct in the "children can't change sex" opinion - and that isn't even an opinion. It's a fact. No-one can can change their biological identity. However, they can change their gender.

With regards to controlled speech, are you referring to pronouns? If this incident actually took place, did your DD's team refuse to refer to the other side by their preferred pronouns?

And no, I don't think I'd be proud of my DD laughing at other people in the way you describe.

As a certain India W thinks they now have a cervix, apparently, I think it's essential that everyone understands biological facts.

What is "gender"?

Yeah it's for CHILDREN and those movies definitely do not feature older characters in romantic (ie sexual) relationships 🙄

You just have to be the one to tell your children the truth

Gender is a load of bollox though, isn’t it. How many are there now? 70?

How can kids NOT laugh at the stupidity of it all? They know who the boys and girls are

https://www.sexualdiversity.org/edu/1111.php

Actually, there are 107 genders now. All with a flag. How can an intelligent child take it seriously?

Yes my son isn’t quite school age yet but I will be keeping a close eye on what he’s eventually taught.

My personal view is that I should not have to accept or play along with someone else’s view that they have changed their gender. The reason for this is that for example, if a male says they are female, they are trying to cover up the reason why ultimately, I would not be comfortable to share certain situations or spaces with them ie their sex.

And yes, this incident took place, and no, my DD’s team didn’t use the preferred pronouns, which included Xir, Xie 🙄. They got on fine with speaker 1/2/3 and referring to “the affirmative”.

But, as a thought experiment, what would have happened, do you think, if an obviously female child was called she rather than Xie? I would guess - not much 🤷‍♀️

@Tryingmuchharder what you (think you) mean by 'biological facts' exactly?
I ask because it's a term which is commonly misused/misunderstood.

So she thinks that someone has a 'gender' which is seemingly affixed to their sex and if they're not happy with that, they choose to live as another 'sex'

Thats not really accurate though. Everyone can wear what they want, act how they want (within legal and social parameters), name themselves what they want, but they are still the sex they are.

@nolongersurprised

And yes, this incident took place, and no, my DD’s team didn’t use the preferred pronouns, which included Xir, Xie 🙄. They got on fine with speaker 1/2/3 and referring to “the affirmative”.

I'm sorry. I'm believing this less and less.

But, as a thought experiment, what would have happened, do you think, if an obviously female child was called she rather than Xie? I would guess - not much 🤷‍♀️

If that was a chosen pronoun, that child would be deeply offended and hurt. But you've demonstrated already that doesn't bother you.

One of the former flatmates of my DD - a female - went by the pronouns they/them. My DD always referred to her correctly and even corrected me when I slipped up as she knew how important it was to her flatmate's mental and emotional health.

With any particular person, these things may or may not last. While they do last, though, I think it's important to simply support that person as you would anyone else. The mental health of my DD's flatmate was so fragile that any removal of support could have led to much deeper problems.

If that was a chosen pronoun, that child would be deeply offended and hurt.

No. I'm not prepared to use made up language to avoid 'offence or hurt' to anyone. Zie / Zer is nonsense.

The PP's DD & her teammates approached it sensibly - they avoided using any pronouns so no offence was caused.

In your they / them example, I've been in this position with someone working briefly on my team. They were lovely, and of course I didn't want to cause upset. In reality, there were very few occasions that I needed to use they / them. On those occasions, it did in fact cause confusion as it assumed a plural that was confusing. We managed & it was ok but it did make it clear to me that it subverts the meaning of language and is problematic.

Why would I care if you believed it, or not?

While they do last, though, I think it's important to simply support that person as you would anyone else. The mental health of my DD's flatmate was so fragile that any removal of support could have led to much deeper problems

Why does lying about someone’s sex help them? Everyone pretending a woman isn’t a woman doesn’t protect a female from biological reality.

And again, we’re back to compelled speech. Your DD’s friend is saying - pretend I’m not female or my mental health will get worse. How does going along with their delusion help them in the long run? Would you agree with the delusions that other mentally unwell people may have, or just when it comes to “gender”.

Essentially, Ocaptain, you’re back to #bekind.

Yet teen girls have watched that lead to the loss of single sex spaces, sport and the language they use to describe themselves.

Gender ideology has hurt women and girls the most, and yes, it’s fair that they push back. And the 107 genders is funny - if you believe in them all, could you name them?

Facilitating children’s self delusion about their self is one of the biggest failures of our modern times. It wouldn’t be so bad if it was as harmless as stupid pronouns, but teenage girls are getting their breasts cut off because no one has the ability to tell them they can’t change their sex.

Anyone who supports preferred pronouns is tacitly supporting mastectomies.

The mental health of my DD's flatmate was so fragile that any removal of support could have led to much deeper problems.

So instead of dealing with mental health issues that were evidently so severe that even referring to the person in a truthful manner could cause (presumably) a meltdown, the whole of society has to tiptoe around this person so not to trigger them? In any other circumstances this would be considered shitty, controlling behaviour - ‘I’m reacting badly because of you’ is never acceptable unless one is being put through genuine abuse. Referring to a biological female as the ‘she’ she is is not abuse.

Then her mental health needed to be treated appropriately so that she didnt feel the need to harm/kill herself at someone referring to her as she.

That is extreme gross thinking errors in the person that only they are able to overcome with treatment/support. Its not for other people around them to play into a delusion.

Equally it could be seen as highly controlling and manipulative to either tell people or certainly give the impression that if you dont use this language about me, Im going to kill myself and it will be your fault.

I'm sorry. I'm believing this less and less

To be fair, the local high school debating scene is fiercely competitive and the teens are quick thinkers and intelligent and usually don’t subscribe to gender woo. I can see why it seems unlikely. However, the pronoun team weren’t very good, and didn’t progress to the knock out stage

nolongersurprised 's story sounds totally plausible to me. Have you read recent YA fiction? No reason why you should have if you don't work with young people but authors like Juno Dawson (herself a transwoman, I think) and Clare Hennessey are almost an eyeroll a page in some books. But it's all expressed as totally normal. Many young people and younger adults (perhaps the more alternative and artistic ones as nolonger says) live this new (or nonsensical depending on your views) reality fully every day. And she did say her daughter laughed privately, not at the other team.

One of my pupils was telling me recently about a student in her brother's year who is gender fluid. They are not permanently male, female or non binary. I asked how that works and she said the studebt wears a pink bracelet on days they want to be a 'she', a blue for 'he' days and a purple for 'they' days. All related without a hint of incredulity or mockery - just seen as another interesting facet on gender expression.

Wow! What an arsehole, I’m glad he was struck off.

One of my pupils was telling me recently about a student in her brother's year who is gender fluid. They are not permanently male, female or non binary. I asked how that works and she said the studebt wears a pink bracelet on days they want to be a 'she', a blue for 'he' days and a purple for 'they' days. All related without a hint of incredulity or mockery - just seen as another interesting facet on gender expression

It’s so funny how they end up reverting to regressive gender stereotypes😀. How exhausting for everyone

It’s great how threads evolve though, isn’t it?