Page 4 | Biological truth should be taught to children?

Tryingmuchharder · 2023-08-04T19:19:56+00:00

AIBU for thinking that biological truth should be taught to children rather than trans ideology.... men can give birth, people can change sex, etc etc. A teacher was suspended and appealed and recently his appealed was overturned. He was sacked for 'misgendering' a girl by calling her a girl rather than a boy. He taught biological fact and not ideology so was sacked. Surely biological facts should be taught to our children? AIBU

Beautiful3 · 05/08/2023 09:31

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Tomorrowillbeachicken · 05/08/2023 09:33

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Tbf it’s done en the government as it’s in the curriculum they are forced to teach

OCaptain · 05/08/2023 09:42

@miniaturepixieonacid

One of my pupils was telling me recently about a student in her brother's year who is gender fluid. They are not permanently male, female or non binary. I asked how that works and she said the studebt wears a pink bracelet on days they want to be a 'she', a blue for 'he' days and a purple for 'they' days. All related without a hint of incredulity or mockery - just seen as another interesting facet on gender expression.

And isn't it interesting that you say "without a hint of incredulity or mockery" - that's because most kids don't care as much as adults appear to do. That one of the reasons I doubt nolongersurprised's story about the laughing debaters. Younger people don't have as much judgement or bring the weight of history and ideology into it.

@bellac11 @Gerrataere

Then her mental health needed to be treated appropriately so that she didnt feel the need to harm/kill herself at someone referring to her as she.

Her gender issues weren't the primary reason for her poor mental health, though they may have contributed to it. It is true at the time I - and my DD - felt her to highly manipulative and threatened certain things to get her own way. However, that doesn't mean doing one thing to help a person stay alive is a negative action.

She was receiving extensive outside assistance with her mental health.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 05/08/2023 09:44

LiOLeary · 05/08/2023 00:07

Take your half-researched, sensational thoughts off to the Gender forum.

There isn’t a gender board so I assume you mean the feminism board

i do wonder sometimes if there should be a gender board 🤔 not sure how busy it would get

nolongersurprised · 05/08/2023 09:48

Younger people don't have as much judgement or bring the weight of history and ideology into it

You underestimate them. Your DD may have bought into it, but it’s a dying ideology. Largely because it’s so silly. Young people know what sex they are and for many teens now, the 107 genders is something to laugh at.

nolongersurprised · 05/08/2023 09:50

I agree though that it still seems prominent in teens in the performing arts, with poor mental health and in autistic girls.

miniaturepixieonacid · 05/08/2023 09:51

@OCaptain Yes, that was my point earlier in the thread. That we can't change this new ideology because the younger generations totally accept it. But it seems not all do.

bellac11 · 05/08/2023 09:52

OCaptain · 05/08/2023 09:42

@miniaturepixieonacid

One of my pupils was telling me recently about a student in her brother's year who is gender fluid. They are not permanently male, female or non binary. I asked how that works and she said the studebt wears a pink bracelet on days they want to be a 'she', a blue for 'he' days and a purple for 'they' days. All related without a hint of incredulity or mockery - just seen as another interesting facet on gender expression.

And isn't it interesting that you say "without a hint of incredulity or mockery" - that's because most kids don't care as much as adults appear to do. That one of the reasons I doubt nolongersurprised's story about the laughing debaters. Younger people don't have as much judgement or bring the weight of history and ideology into it.

@bellac11 @Gerrataere

Then her mental health needed to be treated appropriately so that she didnt feel the need to harm/kill herself at someone referring to her as she.

Her gender issues weren't the primary reason for her poor mental health, though they may have contributed to it. It is true at the time I - and my DD - felt her to highly manipulative and threatened certain things to get her own way. However, that doesn't mean doing one thing to help a person stay alive is a negative action.

She was receiving extensive outside assistance with her mental health.

Im sure you think you mean well, but just listen to the words you use

'doing one thing to help a person stay alive'

Really, what one thing can a human do (not withstanding being a medic performing life saving surgery or CPR type of thing) can someone do to prevent someone killing themselves.

You're right to say that the MH of someone saying they struggle with gender is not about the 'gender' at all, they are usually people who have experienced a trauma background, usually involving sexual abuse from an opposite sex perpetrator, usually either having an ASD diagnosis or ASD traits which are undiagnosed at the time. Struggling with MH because they feel disconnected to society, themselves and peers.
That is what the treatment should be about but instead if gets mixed up with a random off tangent concept (gender) and all focus goes on this.

NotBadConsidering · 05/08/2023 09:55

Loads of kids think it’s nonsense. You only have to look at that video of those teenagers who caught their teacher telling them they need to be nice and telling them off for not complying with the ideology. More and more kids are cottoning on and saying no. It’s great.

nolongersurprised · 05/08/2023 09:57

miniaturepixieonacid · 05/08/2023 09:51

@OCaptain Yes, that was my point earlier in the thread. That we can't change this new ideology because the younger generations totally accept it. But it seems not all do.

As a teacher of performing arts, you’re seeing a very non representative sample though 😀. In the same way that child psychologists/paediatricians and psychiatrists are seeing a huge spike in autistic girls saying they are boys.

In my children’s school rhe “non-binary” girls are the musical, creative ones who 💯 would have been the goths when I was a child, and the punks before that and the emos afterwards.

jeaux90 · 05/08/2023 10:00

Youth are staying to see this for what it is, absolute nonsense.

My DD14 doesn't care and her school doesn't teach gender ideology. It's an all girls school and if one of them said they were a transman, I would not allow my DD to be gaslighted into call them he.

She is ASD so truth is very important to her.

Gerrataere · 05/08/2023 10:01

Her gender issues weren't the primary reason for her poor mental health, though they may have contributed to it.

Her gender issues are because she has undealt with MH issues and very likely neurodivergent. Every young person who identifies differently from their sex falls under one of three categories - has suffered mental trauma in childhood, has ND/autistic traits that haven’t been supported sufficiently or are same sex attracted and have internalised homophobia (usually due to parents/peers). All young people who ID as trans will have been let down severely at some point with their well-being, but the whole trans movement is so built up around the ‘Be Kind Or Else’ train of thought that accepting that we must all instantly change the way we recognise the two human sexes is like putting a plaster over a bullet wound.

If mental health care for young people (especially ND ones) actually was a functional part of health care, a lot of this ‘107 genders’ idea would have stayed on Tumblr 20 odd years ago where it started…

Screamingabdabz · 05/08/2023 10:02

OCaptain · 05/08/2023 02:11

@nolongersurprised

One of my daughters does debating and after they won they were (privately) mercilessly taking the piss of a school they debated where no one’s sex marched their pronouns. A few years ago they wouldn’t have laughed.

How lovely and mature of your daughter and the rest of the debating team. I'd suggest acceptance is the healthier road here. The people in the other team were hurting no-one.

The ideology is hurting women. Laughing at it and taking the piss out of people who are earnestly enslaved and brainwashed by this insidious cult it is the most healthy and ‘mature’ thing young people can do.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 05/08/2023 10:05

jeaux90 · 05/08/2023 10:00

Youth are staying to see this for what it is, absolute nonsense.

My DD14 doesn't care and her school doesn't teach gender ideology. It's an all girls school and if one of them said they were a transman, I would not allow my DD to be gaslighted into call them he.

She is ASD so truth is very important to her.

Would they still be eligible to be there as a boy?

Createausername1970 · 05/08/2023 10:06

nolongersurprised · 04/08/2023 22:46

You reckon?

I have 4 children, the oldest is 17. A few years ago they accepted gender ideology unquestioningly, now they think (and express) that’s it’s a load of made up crap. As a fad, I think it’s dying.

Show quote history

This has been my experience. My DS was at various times "gay" or "pan sexual" according to him when he was around 14 - 17. Now, at 21, he is definitely heterosexual and is slightly embarrassed about what he said on social media.

Plus, a friend of his - born female, wanted to be a boy at 13, even started taking medication to halt periods etc., is now very definitely identifying as female again, is engaged to be married to a male and expecting her first child.

That age group has so much hormonal upheaval to deal with, it's a time of change, becoming more of the adult they will be, rather than the child they were. It can be a confusing and scary time for some and a bit of escapism is common, it's just got rather out of hand.

I agree people should be allowed to be be who they are, but they shouldn't be pressured into being what they aren't. It's a fine line to cross.

jeaux90 · 05/08/2023 10:07

@Tomorrowillbeachicken they are still female so yes. A trans identifying boy would not be because he's male.

Tomorrowillbeachicken · 05/08/2023 10:09

jeaux90 · 05/08/2023 10:07

@Tomorrowillbeachicken they are still female so yes. A trans identifying boy would not be because he's male.

But wants to be treated as a boy, so ineligible for entry as the boy they want to be?

it’s like the cat thing, a cat can’t have a place at a school… they are a cat

thedancingbear · 05/08/2023 10:09

ToWhitToWhoo · 05/08/2023 00:05

This was not about 'biological truth'; it was about the teacher pushing his Christian Right ideological views onto the pupils: on several occasions, and at two different schools.

He told pupils that he was against gay marriage; he told them that Muslims are following 'a false prophet'; and he showed them a PragerU video, which included such statements as:

'(i) The growing problem in today’s society is that men are not masculine enough;
ii. When men deny their masculinity, they run away from responsibilities leaving destruction and devastation in their wake;
iii. Children who grow up without a father are generally more depressed than their peers who have a mother and father. They are at a far greater risk of incarceration, teen pregnancy, and poverty. 71% of High School dropouts are fatherless;
iv. Woman want real men…I don’t know any woman of any age who is attracted to a passive man who looks to her to be his provider, protector, and leader;
v. Passive men don’t defend, protect, or provide. Passive men do not lead'

And Mr. Sutcliffe was a maths teacher, not a teacher of religious studies, or any subject where expressing these views could have been remotely relevant to a topic being taught.

In the case of the trans pupil, it wasn't just a matter of offending the pupil, but revealing the pupil's trans status to others who had not previously been informed.

Meh. You can prove anything with facts. We’re not interested.

BigButtons · 05/08/2023 10:09

At work this year we had an INSET day and had some bloke come and tell us that we should never refer to a child as girl boy because they might identify as the opposite and we could confuse and damage their mental health. This is primary. What a load of bollocks.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/08/2023 10:11

Here is the original displinary outcome if anyone wants to read it. I don’t know of any feminists who know the facts of this case that think this is a simple misgendering case.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/teacher-misconduct-panel-outcome-mr-joshua-sutcliffe

Teacher misconduct panel outcome: Mr Joshua Sutcliffe

Professional conduct panel outcome, including decision and reasons.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/teacher-misconduct-panel-outcome-mr-joshua-sutcliffe

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/08/2023 10:13

Tryingmuchharder · 04/08/2023 20:21

The sacked teacher is called Joshua Sutcliffe, who taught Mathematics at Oxford’s Cherwell School, had previously been suspended and then dismissed from his duties in 2017 for calling a girl a girl. This week a teaching ‘professional conduct panel’ chose to permanently ban him from teaching.

There is a petition to try to reinstate him but you are not allowed to put links to petitions so I won't.

The madness is pervasive in society.

The hearing was months ago. The decision was published in May.

Theunamedcat · 05/08/2023 10:16

Cucucucu · 04/08/2023 23:13

Do you really think children don’t know the facts ? My 7 year old knows how babies are made and what a biological men and woman are , she also knows some people are not happy with their gender and choose to identify and live as the other . She really is nit confused about anything . I think everyone is worried with something that really is getting to much attention due to everyone’s fixation on the subject

So did mine when she was 7 now she is 23 she is offering up her uterus to anyone who wants it telling them she would have major surgery to feed their fantasy (silly girl won't even have a blood test in reality) she has totally drank the kool aid on this subject

I'm ashamed to say I raised her somedays

It's not that I have anything against trans people I just think life is safer and easier if everyone stays in their lane

jeaux90 · 05/08/2023 10:19

@Tomorrowillbeachicken I don't care how people want to be treated, I mean how in earth do you live as a boy or a girl anyway? Cut your hair? Wear trousers? All seems very regressive and stereotypical to me.

Bottom line is it's a single sex school so however the girl wants to identify, she's female.

Snugglemonkey · 05/08/2023 10:25

Tryingmuchharder · 04/08/2023 23:51

What did he say then that was so awful apart from people cannot change sex? Please share?

Show quote history

He is homophobic, is misogynistic and encourages toxic masculinity, has no respect for other religions and no respect for his pupils. He has said lots of awful things that demonstrate the former. He is not someone who should be teaching children.

CecilyP · 05/08/2023 10:36

One of the former flatmates of my DD - a female - went by the pronouns they/them. My DD always referred to her correctly and even corrected me when I slipped up as she knew how important it was to her flatmate's mental and emotional health.

So it would affect her flatmate’s mental and emotional health if you referred to her as she when she wasn’t even there? That sounds like exertion an exceptional level of control over other people - even people you barely know!