"Therapy" is no better than a natter with a friend or a placebo.

[Market1]

I am starting this thread to see what people think of therapy. I am personally convinced it is at least 80% useless - I am not saying completely useless, as I am sure talking about a problem makes you feel better, although you can talk things through with your pet rabbit - I used to as a teen! There is also some value in learning some techniques such as CBT, but that can be learnt from a book, so again, not sure of the value of an actual therapist.

I've come to this conclusion through two main sources, children and holocaust survivors.

I have known thousands of children through teaching, and fostering, and many many of them have seen therapists. My main observation is that huge expectations are placed on therapy as some sort of magic bullet that is going to cure all problems, but the result is inevitably disappointment, as nothing changes. Parents, and children too are left wondering what magic was supposed to have happened, and why it didn't. One fostering social worker once mentioned to me that she thought it was a complete waste of time after the age of 8, and I think she was right. Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

My other source is coming from a family of holocaust survivors, who never had therapy, and survived by not talking about hte past - Many went on to have long, happy, successful lives, married and raised families, ( including me!) . They did not discuss the past, and I was told not to ask questions. They were not totally without problems. I was aware of the occasional nightmare, and several of them were binge eaters who became obese in old age. However, they lived with this problems quite happily, and there was no talk or expectation of "therapy" of any kind to address them

So I have started this thread to see what others think. Maybe I am wrong - I am open to being told that I am wrong in this. My experiences have not given me any confidence in arranging for therapy for any child, or suggesting it for any adult, but please tell me if it is really in fact a wonder drug and I have missed the point somehow!

I should say I have been sent for therapy twice myself - once after being in a road accident in which my closest school friend died, ( aged 16)it was awful, made me cry every time, I felt so much better when I was allowed to stop, and once sent by my employer after I was knifed ( quite gently!) by a student at school - I was taught some useful CBT, but in my opinion a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey.

so:

YABU - therapy is helpful - and please explain how!
YANBU - therapy is a waste of time /a money maker/ sending someone for therapy or providing it is just a way of letting someone feel they are doing something useful, when they are not

The range of therapies and interventions is so wide that this question is almost impossible to answer.

A 6 week course of person centred counselling?

6 months of CBT?

Group dialectical behaviour therapy?

Group analytical therapy?

Mindfulness MBT?

18 months of once a week psychodynamic psychotherapy?

5-10 years of five times a week psychoanalysis lying on the couch?

All these things are so different in method, intensity and approach as to not be comparable.

I think two points are really key:

• the therapist is someone that not only listens, but thinks differently to the patient. If the patient can cope with this fact, it leads to emotional growth
• the therapy is not a treatment in the way that a drug is a treatment for an illness. It is the making of a space for a patient to think about themselves. There is a huge variation in the degree to which patients can use that space.

Therapy is a relationship between 2 people: the client and the therapist. What the client gets from it very much depends on their attitude to it and their willingness to carry on processing ideas after the sessions. It's not a magic bullet or cold compress to take away the pain. It's often hard work for the client because they have to confront things that they've done/that have happened to them and consider what meaning they have/what could be different another time. Therapy doesn't 'tell you what to do' but sets you goals where you can perhaps alter your way of dealing with events or even decide that the person/organisation hurting you is at fault and then you and only you, can decide what to do about it. While it is often helpful talking to trusted friend, there are times when this isn't the best thing to do. Therapists are trained NOT to bring their experiences into the conversation and also to be non-judgemental, so you don't have to edit what you say. Therapists probably don't know you or any people you might talk about, so there is no problem about you being totally honest. Also all properly accredited therapists are 'supervised' by a more qualified professional,so that, without breaking and confidences, the problem and their approach is discussed wit someone else and they are given advice and guidance, if necessary. Some of the problems people might want to discuss actually need action, e.g. abuse or criminal activity being done to them and a therapist would be more detached and knowledgeable about what you can do. Some peopleneed to have a lot of therapy,either because they have had really appalling experiences. Others need lots because they have little resilience and few coping skills and this can be improved through therapy. Others have no need of therapy because they haven't had experiences they can' cope with. Some others would resist therapy but the way they react to life shows that they could do with some help.These are the worst people to talk to 'as a friend'in my opinion,as they tend to use your situation to exercise their own need for revenge. Hope this is helpful.

I just clicked on the 5 steps to mental Well being.
The first is CONNECT, well in defence of therapy, it was a very connecting experience to be heard and validated when I had gone to therapy because family scapegoating made me feel other rejections more intensely. Also, as for number 5, mindfulness, my 2nd therapist (I've had 3, so far!) Got me in to self compassion and recommended the excellent work book by kirsten neff phd and Chris grtmer phd "mindfulness self compassion". I took that book a chapter per weekend because I wanted to do the exercises, do the work and I did feel better afterwards.

Personally, I'd sooner crack open a bottle of wine with a thrusted, honest good mate and waffle away at her.

Waffling at a stranger wouldn't work for me - but each to their own.👍

Great, but how does that work if the conversation is far too brutal for your friend to listen to? I've given examples in here already of the kinds of things I've taken into counselling sessions - no way could I put that into someone who isn't prepared to cope with it.

It depends on the therapy you are having vs problem you are trying to solve and who your therapist is. I think it also depends on your support network.

If you are surrounded by people who acknowledge your feelings and let you speak I don't think it's as helpful as someone who is surrounded by people who disregard your feelings or try to fix everything for you.

I got on with my life after childhood trauma and lived with it for 20 years seemingly happy and enjoying life but later life trauma unleashed it all and I needed the help of a therapist trained in trauma to help me process it. It was hard work but she helped me out things into perspective and to finally let go of the past. I can now look back and see how the issues in my childhood shaped the choices I made, the person I grew into and my inability to recognise unhealthy behaviours. Things that people would have said were me "living my best life" were actually a flight response and my constantly wanting to run. I also benefitted from talking therapy afterwards when I had a wobble and enabled me to calm down and engage with the coping tactics I had been taught before. I think it can be hugely beneficial when given to the right person in the right circumstances but just like most things it's not a one fit for all

I think it depends partly on the reason why you are accessing therapy. Exposure response therapy has helped me cope with OCD and anxiety. It’s taught me things, and doesn’t just involve having a chat about feelings.

I may have been able to read about it in a book but my weekly sessions with a therapist has been hugely valuable in my recovery. CBT on it’s own made no difference. I started ERT 10 weeks ago and it’s changed my life so much already. Best money i’ve ever spent.

coming from someone who has accessed NHS CBT twice and 8 different types of medications! A good therapist makes all the difference IMO

I think this is the thing. You have to really click with a therapist. It was really useful for me, but I can no longer find that particular therapist. (I also had a meh experience with a different therapist).

Therapy can be helpful, it has been for working through my OCD. The OCD thoughts are completely at odds with just about everyone else's view points and that's been a breakthrough in getting better.

Play therapy and art therapy was helpful for allowing me to talk about the sexual abuse I suffered which means that my parents and related authorities knew the extent without me needing to have those conversations.

Much of the therapy I have been through is absolutely useless though.

I would however never talk to a friend about any of my struggles. I wouldn't trauma dump on anyone like that.

Ds1 had therapy and it was very helpful for him, dd saw the same guy and loathed him…i used to have 30+ minutes of driving her home and the entire journey was taken up with how much she hated him and the whole process

she ended up seeing a psychiatrist and loathed that as well….she stopped going once she worked out what she needed to say to be ‘discharged’

a few years later she went through something else quite traumatic and got in very well with the counselor allocated to her and found them very helpful

so in my very limited experience I would say its good for some people and not for others and can vary depending on the issue and therapist

How many people end friendships because "I felt like I'd turned into their therapist" - too many! There is a need for it because there is a level of support people need that is too much for a standard relationship. PTSD and BPD being two conditions that can rapidly kill off friendship's.

Again...its not waffling.

Again, we ate talking about mental health terms in a way we wouldnt about physical.

I vote YABVU because op you’re on a massive wind up with this load of ignorant ‘I’m alright Jack’ bollox.

Saw a therapist in an abusive relationship and she was invaluable but she was a specialist in DV who helped me talk it through, validated my suspicions that I was being abused and also helped with practical things like referring to a lock smith. Maybe depends on the circumstance?

Also used a therapist when a close relative was dying of cancer, again they were able to deal with the specific emotions, tell me what was likely to happen and help with practicalities.

Both times it helped that it was someone detached from the situation

Disagree with this, a good therapist will tell you when you've gone as far as they can take you.

My therapist "weaned" me down from weekly to monthly and it was the therapist who said she didn't think we need to see see each other anymore.

It's so dependent on getting a good therapist!

👏👏

A therapist knows the right questions to ask you, it's not just aimless talking.

@onefinemess - erm, isn't that the point?
Or are you always so one-dimensional?

If only MN was in charge of mental health. Either just get over it or drink a bottle of wine with your pal. Problem solved.

Agreed.
And @Market1 clearly hasn't read anything by Edith Eger -who herself was inspired by another Holocaust survivor who became a therapist.

or,.of course, Viktor Frankl,.another Holocaust survivor

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl

There's no right or wrong way to live after surviving something so monstrously horrific. But certainly it would not be correct to suggest that some didn't find therapy helpful

I think conversations with friends can be helpful, but they are really not the same as therapy at all. I have some friends with whom I can't have this type of conversation at all - they just don't like to talk about things like this.
I have some that I could talk to, but of course it would not be fair to monopolise their time like that. They also need to get a chance to talk about what's going on in their own lives.
They have their own experiences and viewpoints and can never be impartial. They are part of your life themselves rather than an independent observer. There's also a risk of falling out and your secrets no longer being safe.

It's not a magic bullet, but for the right topics and right circumstances it can help.

There's a lot of quacks out there though as anyone can set themselves up and call themselves a therapist. It matters to get someone good and respectable who you can build rapport with.

I actually find it more problematic when people expect their friends to be their therapists. Friend and therapist are different roles.

I think some people are quite bad at emotion dumping and offloading their trauma onto their friends.

Waffling to a stranger doesn’t work for anyone, but luckily that isn’t what therapy is

It depends very much on the therapist, the bond established with the client, and on the willingness of the client to fully engage with the techniques taught. To dismiss it altogether seems to me to be shortsighted. The value of a therapist lies in their experience, knowledge, and especially their complete objectivity. The last you do not always get with a friend or relative, because their affection for you can skew their judgement and advice.
I've seen 2 therapists. The first one I did not get on with at all, the aggressive and confrontational manner grated on me. The second one suited me very well, I engaged with all techniques and truly valued their perspectives; and with their help, I began my recovery.

Agre. Why have physiotherapy after an injury, when you could just move your arms and legs about yourself?