"Therapy" is no better than a natter with a friend or a placebo.

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I am starting this thread to see what people think of therapy. I am personally convinced it is at least 80% useless - I am not saying completely useless, as I am sure talking about a problem makes you feel better, although you can talk things through with your pet rabbit - I used to as a teen! There is also some value in learning some techniques such as CBT, but that can be learnt from a book, so again, not sure of the value of an actual therapist.

I've come to this conclusion through two main sources, children and holocaust survivors.

I have known thousands of children through teaching, and fostering, and many many of them have seen therapists. My main observation is that huge expectations are placed on therapy as some sort of magic bullet that is going to cure all problems, but the result is inevitably disappointment, as nothing changes. Parents, and children too are left wondering what magic was supposed to have happened, and why it didn't. One fostering social worker once mentioned to me that she thought it was a complete waste of time after the age of 8, and I think she was right. Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

My other source is coming from a family of holocaust survivors, who never had therapy, and survived by not talking about hte past - Many went on to have long, happy, successful lives, married and raised families, ( including me!) . They did not discuss the past, and I was told not to ask questions. They were not totally without problems. I was aware of the occasional nightmare, and several of them were binge eaters who became obese in old age. However, they lived with this problems quite happily, and there was no talk or expectation of "therapy" of any kind to address them

So I have started this thread to see what others think. Maybe I am wrong - I am open to being told that I am wrong in this. My experiences have not given me any confidence in arranging for therapy for any child, or suggesting it for any adult, but please tell me if it is really in fact a wonder drug and I have missed the point somehow!

I should say I have been sent for therapy twice myself - once after being in a road accident in which my closest school friend died, ( aged 16)it was awful, made me cry every time, I felt so much better when I was allowed to stop, and once sent by my employer after I was knifed ( quite gently!) by a student at school - I was taught some useful CBT, but in my opinion a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey.

so:

YABU - therapy is helpful - and please explain how!
YANBU - therapy is a waste of time /a money maker/ sending someone for therapy or providing it is just a way of letting someone feel they are doing something useful, when they are not

So did I and i hope people continue to do so.
She also failed to respond to my question about the many things people used to do that we dont do with the advance in medicine.

I don't think it's your friends job to offload your problems to, we all have our own shit and many times people are not at all self aware and have no clue about how much they can make every conversation about them and constantly be negative about everything. There are people that I have lowered then stopped contact with because of this. Pay a therapist.

"a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey"

Seriously, you're a teacher? Might want to look a bit closer to home for this...this was my entire school experience!

I wish I’d been given therapy as a child/teen/young adult to resolve issues of witnessing domestic violence, dysfunctional family life and narcissistic parents. I think it would’ve helped me make different decisions and react differently to things that have happened in my life. I feel my life would’ve been completely different (and better) if I’d had therapy to deal with all the issues/situations I had/experienced as a child/teen.

Because counselors who use a person centred/ humanistic approach think if you let the client talk and talk they will arrive at their own epiphanies/ solutions ( according to the reading one gave me to). Which is bollocks. Though it does explain why do many people have bad experience of counselors, reporting ‘ they never really said anything. They never really did anything’. I used to think those were crap counselors but now I realise it is an entire therapeutic approach.

I’ve had two good counsellors who were helpful, one challenged me and was really insightful, good at getting through my splurge of pain to identify my core ( unhelpful) thinking/ narrative and challenging me on it. The other focused on identifying my thinking patterns and helping me to challenge these, and use more helpful ways of thinking.

I've had a very positive therapy experience.

I'm not a fan of trauma or emotional baggage dumping on friends, at least not if somebody does it regularly or when they really should see a therapist. Being put into the role of unpaid therapist is pretty shitty if it happens too often (and if you're a good listener and person with good empathy, it will happen often).

I've cooled off or just plain cut off friendships where people have taken the piss with that.

@Blatantlyfemale ah yes, agree with this. You couldn't work out a lot of things just on your own with this approach.

Person centred makes me angry, but humanistic I thought would be a bit different. Maybe it's not.

It's actually really important that the therapist facilitates the progress properly and doesn't rely on fucking silence.

I had counselling some years ago, and it really helped me a lot. Just as well, because I was teetering on the edge of a complete breakdown.

I'd spent many years not talking about it and putting it to the back of my mind, but that approach didn't work for me. I needed a professional counsellor to help me understand my thought processes, and how to look at my childhood traumas in a different light.

Everyone is different, and one size does not fit all.

I'm person centred. Can you explain why it makes you angry? (Sprry that was very person centred 🤣)

But with respect the ‘advances’ mentioned in medicine are to do with measurable physical effects on the physical body ( and not all of the ‘advances’ turn out to be that, the drugs which have to be withdrawn for their ‘side’ effects, lobotomy, electric shock treatment to name a few). The psychological and emotional problems which therapy is supposed to address are less easily defined , and their alleviation less demonstrable, except by the affirmation of the sufferer.

I come of the generation where ‘resilience ‘ was more highly valued than seems currently to be the case. Of course, that resilience was perhaps enabled by a more homogeneous society, and by the existence of alternative sources of support. I don’t understand why if previous generations were so ignorant about ‘ mental health’ , the rates of people apparently suffering in this respect seem to increase continuously.

So I think the assumption that our understanding, and more particularly, the availability of alleviation for mental distress is on a continuing upward trajectory is open to debate.

The headline? People are talking about it more, and social media.

My dad claims nobody was gay in his youth. Ian mckellen does a phenomenal speech about nobody in the premier league or in schools being gay 🤥 nobody in my entire year was autistic.

And ob that note, I attribute this generations mental health to the earlier generations inability or unwillingness to address neurodivetsity, sexuality and male mental health.

We are just talking ahout it more.

Re, the physical thing I understand what you're saying. But it cant be measured in tbe same way , can it? People have treatment and still die. It's the same on the mental health world. The only difference is , terminal illness or cancer is protected in the sense that a similar
OP about someone just needing to get over it because their granny did would be vilified. Bar a couple or oppositions that shes ignored, people have jumped on to bash counselling. Which takes me back to why we have the rates we have.

I’m on the fence. I have some stuff I struggle with that I can’t really talk to people around me about. And so I go to therapy weekly. But I am sufficiently peri/meno whatever that my memory is fucking awful. So each week we talk but I wouldn’t say I am building on the sessions over time. I can’t remember what’s been said really, by me or them.
I can’t really afford it so am considering stopping it. So far I haven’t because I am worried that perhaps it is an important outlet for some things and if I stop doing it permanently I will freak out over not having that once a week time when I know that someone will listen. I find it extra difficult when I feel I can’t speak to anyone about those things and if I am struggling with them at the same time.

I disagree that therapy is no better than a good natter with a friend. I think that a natter with a friend can do the world of good however friends will have a level of bias and in depth knowledge of a persons behaviours, personality etc which will likely affect any therapeutic discussion they have with a friend.

Through my job, I've trained in a few therapy 'lites', so I'm not a therapist, but I do embed therapy techniques into my practice. I would find it difficult to be a therapist to a friend though, as I have too much background knowledge/bias about them. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself properly, it makes sense to me!

You need to try and use the strategies your counsellor should be teaching you.

My problem was I knew what she was saying was right, being qualified myself , I just didnt feel it.

I think my perspective would be based on your control group, OP - you've stated that they are children, and holocaust survivors.

There is an enormous group of people between those two sections.

To me, if you switch out the word 'therapy, for 'insights, perspective, mentorship and coaching', which you absolutely could, the benefits of 'therapy' as a function is hard to ignore.

And without judging, it feels likely that you do not know the innermost thoughts, fears, concerns and behaviours of those who inform your opinion. What people think and feel, and what they share and portray, are frequently very different.

I doubt Op will return after her agenda failed but I hope people can continue to discuss therapy. It's so, so important.

Yes I wonder why op thinks they can confidently pronounce that all their traumatised family members were fine without therapy, and actually "lived quite happily with their problems"which included nightmares and eating disorders!

Really, really odd thread imo.

I think it's such a worrying perspective, @Begsthequestion.

If OP is a foster carer or teacher, and therefore in a position of influence over vulnerable people, to be of the 'don't seek help, just get on with it' mentality is genuinely worrying.

I'm a very measured, balanced and successful person but have gone through very dark times. I had therapy during & after depression, for things my friends and family just couldn't have dealt or understood.

Had a good therapist not been available to me, I think my outcome may have been very different.

This sort of vocal belief makes me feel so afraid for others.

Utterly bizarre thread and I'm disgusted by the holocaust refs.

❤❤

I was always a big advocate for therapy, I tried some CBT for anxiety and found it useless, but appreciate that’s not therapy. Was speaking with my BIL recently who is training to be a clinical psychologist and he’s feeling very demoralised lately as he’s come to the conclusion through his job that therapy in most cases does not work.

What does your BIL mean by therapy "working"? What kind of outcome is he measuring?

It's not a magic pill of course. But it has improved the lives of many people I know, so I'm surprised your BIL is so adamant it doesn't work.

Usually people think after their 12 sessions or whatever theyl feel better.

I should have added more detail to the post, he deals with children and young people who have complex mental health issues/trauma, many have had years and years of therapy of varying types and according to him there is very little improvement in their mental health. He doesn’t think it can’t work, just thinks that the people who need it the most often benefit the least from it. He works within the NHS, so I imagine he is dealing with the “worst” cases, which obviously will skew his view.

YABVVU, and dangerous with your views. I really hope someone teetering on the brink does not think they should not bother to try and access professional help, and instead thinking talking to a friend is better.

Therapy saved my life... both 1:1 and DBT, of which I did for 5 years. A professional (who would also be having their own support) helped me reflect and taught me skills. I could offload onto them. I would never think of trauma dumping on friends... that is not fair on them, and not helpful for me.