"Therapy" is no better than a natter with a friend or a placebo.

[Market1]

I am starting this thread to see what people think of therapy. I am personally convinced it is at least 80% useless - I am not saying completely useless, as I am sure talking about a problem makes you feel better, although you can talk things through with your pet rabbit - I used to as a teen! There is also some value in learning some techniques such as CBT, but that can be learnt from a book, so again, not sure of the value of an actual therapist.

I've come to this conclusion through two main sources, children and holocaust survivors.

I have known thousands of children through teaching, and fostering, and many many of them have seen therapists. My main observation is that huge expectations are placed on therapy as some sort of magic bullet that is going to cure all problems, but the result is inevitably disappointment, as nothing changes. Parents, and children too are left wondering what magic was supposed to have happened, and why it didn't. One fostering social worker once mentioned to me that she thought it was a complete waste of time after the age of 8, and I think she was right. Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

My other source is coming from a family of holocaust survivors, who never had therapy, and survived by not talking about hte past - Many went on to have long, happy, successful lives, married and raised families, ( including me!) . They did not discuss the past, and I was told not to ask questions. They were not totally without problems. I was aware of the occasional nightmare, and several of them were binge eaters who became obese in old age. However, they lived with this problems quite happily, and there was no talk or expectation of "therapy" of any kind to address them

So I have started this thread to see what others think. Maybe I am wrong - I am open to being told that I am wrong in this. My experiences have not given me any confidence in arranging for therapy for any child, or suggesting it for any adult, but please tell me if it is really in fact a wonder drug and I have missed the point somehow!

I should say I have been sent for therapy twice myself - once after being in a road accident in which my closest school friend died, ( aged 16)it was awful, made me cry every time, I felt so much better when I was allowed to stop, and once sent by my employer after I was knifed ( quite gently!) by a student at school - I was taught some useful CBT, but in my opinion a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey.

so:

YABU - therapy is helpful - and please explain how!
YANBU - therapy is a waste of time /a money maker/ sending someone for therapy or providing it is just a way of letting someone feel they are doing something useful, when they are not

Friends are not there to take the weight of someone else's trauma for them.

This!

It’s not your friends’ job to listen to you talking about yourself for hours on end even if it’s not trauma. Anyone who thinks therapy and a friendly natter are the same isn’t do one or other of them right!

🙂💐

@XelaM 'never wallowed in self pity or seen a therapist '? I have heard it all now. What has wallowing and self pity to do with therapy?

What do you make of today's survivors of more recent wars, or those in the army sent to Afghanistan and coming back with PTSD?

I guess they are snowflakes?

I have seen half a dozen therapists in my time- some helpful, some not so much. The thing that stands out with all the therapists I saw before my 40s, though, was that I would tell them all about my problems relating to other people, and not a single one picked up on the fact that I might be autistic. Awareness of neurodivergence remains very poor in the therapeutic community, IME. Now that I am aware of my own autism, I'm currently seeing a counsellor for a bit of a "service", and we have some interesting conversations about better ways to respond to neurodivergent people in therapy.

What was a gamechanger for me was CBT. Absolutely changed my life.

Perhaps you are not a binge eater but an overeater? They are different things.

I would also ask why you call yourself a binge eater if you don’t see the quantities of food you eat as a problem? Why not just say that you like to eat a lot of food? Consistent bingeing is a disordered approach to food. Is this you? If not then you are just a regular eater. There are specific criteria by which binge eating disorder is diagnosed.

You cannot possibly know what another person experiences internally. No one can. A close friend of mine ended his own life. If you had told me that one of our group would do this. I would not have picked him in a million years. He was the life and soul of the party, a bright spark. I have heard the same from many others who have been bereaved in this way.

ime a certain generation kept quiet about painful experiences precisely because there was nowhere to take them. Therapy is a relatively new thing and for that generation was often seen as embarrassing precisely because they felt they should be able to deal with everything alone. Luckily, we no longer have to live with this attitude. I would encourage those who feel the need to seek out therapy. It could save your life.

Social connections and being involved within a community so your sense of belonging is achieved will make you feel better than therapy.

@CattyCattle I agree with a lot of your posts. My bad experiences with therapy have also involved a lot of navel-gazing about childhood events. But living in the past didn't take me forward.

I think there's a big trend online to say things like "it's wrong to burden your friends with your problems" or "friends aren't there to be your therapist" and the like. I really disagree with this attitude. I'm not saying don't also go to therapy if you click with them and it's helping, but the love and support and comfort that you feel from having friends and family who genuinely are there for you is incalculable. Even just sitting with them and feeling the warmth of their presence.

@Market1 i think the fostering social worker you spoke to who said there’s no point in therapy past 8 was ignorant/irresponsible. I have seen therapy have a significant impact on looked after children as teenagers and I hate the idea that there are social workers who go about saying there’s no point in therapy when there are children who have so few ways of navigating their lives and need help.

I do get why the ‘magic bullet’ aspect of it is annoying. And with children it’s tricky because they are not always buying in to it but essentially being made to do it in one way or another.

I think there are some really interesting questions about what makes therapy effective and I sort of get why you think it seems a bit pointless from
your impressions but I don’t think you could actually possibly know what impact therapy has had on the kids you have worked with.

I read once that the ‘therapeutic alliance’ - which is the sense that you trust your therapist and believe they are looking out for you - is a better predictor of good therapeutic outcomes than the actual style of therapy, and I have found this in my experience of counselling. So in that way, yes there are questions about whether or not a friend could fulfil some of that role. However personally the biggest thing counselling did for me was give me a space where I could say - I feel suicidal - and have an adult discuss that with me impartially and without emotion. It’s not always fair/ a good idea to say that to friends.

V interesting topic to start @Market1
Also worth considering how accessible therapy has changed the demographic of who is seeking it too. It’s not necessarily used just for major traumas or accessed by laying on a sofa in a clinical setting. Isn’t it also the case that historically people relied more on community friendships- settings such as the pub, for conversations and having someone to talk to- as a tool for managing feelings. Friendship dynamics have also changed, with more virtual connections than close neighbourhood friends having an impact on the general mental health wellbeing of society. My concerns would be more around who is offering the therapy services, especially when people may need clinical support but find themselves talking to an unqualified listener through a pay-as-you-go counselling service on zoom. As long as the right kind of support is being offered, I know it can help people who need a safe space for talking and dealing with whatever makes them feel emotionally unstable.

Reading these it sounds like it needs to be reframed as something you do to get things off your chest without burdening friends and relatives, but not as a solution to those problems.

My own experience is a relative having CBT transformed their life but they had previously had lots of talking therapies which made them feel better for a day but I think made them re-livr stuff over and over with no relief..and to be honest I think it entrenched some poor coping mechanisms.

Unfor that is well said.
it is a profession that attracts some odd types. Some therapists are well rounded and mentally stable and secure themselves, others less so.

Surely this is another example of how everyone is different.
I cannot think of anything worse than talking about my problems/ early life/issues or anything else, with anyone, counsellor, therapist, friend, family member.
I believe, absolutely, that many, many people will have completely the opposite feeling and that is how it should be. Nothing in life is one size fits all.

I have therapy to help me cope with parenting my autistic child. None of my friends or family can cope with discussing the issues that arise. They are either baffled by what I am talking about or very distressed. It seems very unfair to expect them to be there for this for 2 decades.

For me, talking therapy did not work, it just reminded me of the awful things that happened, I refused to engage and would rather just not talk about it ever. Trauma therapy including EMDR was a game changer for me.

I think you have to really want and be ready for therapy for it to work for you. Therapy is hard work and not a quick fix. It can be painful because you are opening up and offloading painful events/emotions. With the right therapist you should be able to feel safe to do that and to put the work in to make changes. When someone is stuck in a cycle of anxiety/depression/and bad habit that has a negative effect on mental health, its about changing that routine and facing the issues instead of running away from them. I have wonderful family and friends who would support me but having an independent safe space to go and work on myself has been so beneficial for me personally. If you don't believe in therapy I truly think it won't work for you.

I personally think CBT is great - very practical and useful. I think psychoanalysis is a bit of a waste of time, and is no better than chatting to a caring friend, but it seems to help some people

Apologies I haven't had time to read all the posts. Personally I have found therapy extremely helpful. I have good close friends, but that is a different conversation. When things became extremely difficult in my life, the therapist definitely helped me through. I think much depends on the quality of the therapist and on the level of trust between therapist and client

Therapy profoundly changed the way I related to other people in my life and helped me understand myself better. It enabled me to disrupt patterns that I wouldn’t have had clarity on or the confidence to change without therapy - a natter with friends doesn’t compare, like apples and oranges.

I think the likelihood of therapy working for you depends on the following:

1. Your willingness to engage in the process, tolerate the discomfort, and belief that it might be able to help you if you let it
2. Your presenting problem - what you want help with
3. The skill and approach of your therapist
4. The relationship between you and your therapist - it needs to be a good fit

I think these 4 things all need to align for therapy to have maximum impact. It’s also not all or nothing - there’s probably a spectrum of degree of benefit, or lack thereof.

YABsoooooU. Rant incoming.

I'm a therapist. It is not just chatting fgs. You can do some structured venting (and some people need that and are more comfortable with a stranger) but many mental health issues need specific treatment. There are many types of therapy, all with different purposes and techniques. CBT, ACT, EMDR, DBT, ERP, I could go on. The reason these things cant be done from a book is that people who are unwell often dont have the insight needed to do it, or the coping skills, and need support while they get better. I cant believe that isnt obvious tbh.

For example ERP is one of the types I practice, by all credible research it is the gold standard treatment for OCD. It is one of the few things that works for a life destroying illness. Do you think they should chat to a mate instead of getting evidence based targeted help? EMDR is for trauma and PTSD, DBT is for borderline personality disorder and so on. These cant be done alone. They all have a purpose. Therapy is more than just mildly sad people needing a vent and spreading this noxious rhetoric you have here is dangerous. I hope nobody who really needs help reads this and is put off. I envy your naiviete on the topic tbh.

As for envoking Holocaust survivors, I dont know where to even start on that.

I'll leave before I get much angrier but long story short, stop spouting off about things you demonstrably have no idea about.

Not talking about traumatic events is certainly one coping skill and it works really well for some people. On the other hand it absolutely does not work well for others and can end up destroying them, physically and mentally. You already mentioned binge eating and nightmares and the likelihood is that those are just the tip of the iceberg in what these individuals are experiencing. Some reading and understanding of PTSD and cPTSD would be helpful here.

What would you suggest as an alternative to therapy for those for 'don't talk about it' isn't an effective strategy? For example, service personnel who have sometimes experienced ongoing and repeated trauma?

Personally for me therapy has improved my life and me as a person. I have wonderful therapist who's guided me, reassured and most importantly listened to what I'm not saying. It's helped me come to terms with childhood trauma and someone I can talk about the awful things I see as a nurse that I can't tell my family.

I can understand how it may not work for everyone, as one size does not fit all.

I've also witnessed major trauma patients respond very differently to therapy, some positive/some negative.

I think you have to be open and willing for it work but also understand it won't fix everything overnight.

I think if you get the right therapist for you it can be amazing, but it’s hard to find the right one.

In principle I agree.

But in reality I’m not going to talk to a friend about binging and purging, or the thought processes that occur before harming myself.

Ive never paid for it, I don’t see it as worth it as I can talk some things through. But on the nhs is been slightly more helpful than if I confided in a friend.

I've had loads of therapy over my lifetime. Sometimes it was brilliant and really effective, other times it was a waste of time.

It really depends on two things imo. The type of therapy suiting what you need and the therapist. Some therapists are very good and some are really not. Some therapists you click with and "get" you and some really don't.

So variable experience comes with the territory I think.

Suppressing and not talking about something rarely works though imo. You saying people had happy lives but were overeating to the point they were obese and having nightmares suggests otherwise. Unresolved or processed emotions leaches out on other ways if you try to just box them away.

My DH has these tendencies. So he has unresolved trauma from way back when he a teen/early twenties. He is amazingly good at appearing to the world as if he is on top of everything and very happy. The reality is underneath he is anxious and sometimes depressed. Literally no one other than me has any idea.

Processing emotions though doesn't have to be done with a therapist. That may work for some. But reading a self-help book or talking to friends and family, or meditating or thinking while on a long walk in nature might help others. It's all very personal and someone probably has to try different approaches to work out what works for them.