I'm fucking livid. Am I allowed to be livid? Because I am.

[Fuckingfumin]

Did I mentioned that im livid?

Both DH and I work full time.
he works Saturdays.

we have children, one of whom has additional needs and is an awful violent, abusive individual.
We are getting support from psychiatrists and we have a key worker. You may link this to my previous threads.

Its my FIL's 80th, we were all supposed to go to theirs 1.5 hours away for a surprise lunch.

Only DH went because we didn't want a violent outburst our 12 year old and for him to call us all cunts and possibly throw a chair at us, like he does.

So DH decided he would go alone.

He was planning on leaving at 11am.

He didn't bother hauling his arse out of bed until 9.30am.

Tonigbt I'm putting the smallest to bed, he's asleep and 12 year old calls me in tears asking me to collect him as his bully has just punched him repeatedly in the head.

I call DH thinking it's 7pm so he must be round the corner as it's quite late.

no, he's just left.

So I have to wake up and drag out a crying pre-schooler to rescue the other one Who is now throwing things round his room in a rage as per.

Im absolutely livid that DH has just left.

Why the fuck did he need to stay until 7pm? When he knows full fucking well what it's like here.

You go for a birthday lunch, you leave by 5, 6 latest surely??

are you not aware how many have dual diagnosis ?

Which version of the ICD do you think included autism as the R word? That’s been used in your employment lifetime? That gives you a reason for not knowing the current content or the content of the ICD10. Here is a clue, mental retardation was included in the ICD10, autism was not under that. Do we refer to people that was anymore? No but why is that relevant? The ICD 10 isn’t in use anymore. Which you obviously know which is why you know all about “whatever they’re called”, something that clearly isn’t a priority for people working with children.

You are aware what the DSM is right? How it’s written? How often? Again it’s not regularly and there’s really no excuse for a professional working within that field to not be fully up to speed with the content.

No one has assumed anything, what they are saying is that 12 year olds are not fully developed. Ever. The brain will continue to develop. If there are adults who have not developed beyond 12 that is a sign of being pretty severely impaired and isn’t relevant to you, because what you seem to be suggesting is that as a grown adult you should be afforded the same tolerance as a 12 year old yet simultaneously arguing you’re qualified to work with 12 year olds. Pick a side - you’re either functioning emotionally at 12 and shouldn’t be anywhere near pre teens. Or you’re an adult who has no idea what they’re talking about.

Yep they might actually get someone like me who understands their mental health is normal instead of using stigma but hey if that is how you roll then so be it!

I think there is a bit of a pile on against weewillywinkie. Weewillywinkie is just expressing a view, based on lived experience of asd. Why the pile on?

The ICD-11 may have some uses, but there are many criticisms. We don't have to accept it as gospel. Homosexuality was once considered a mental disorder and only dropped in version 10 of the ICD.

We r now in version 11 of ICD and it has undergone significant revision since MH diagnoses were first introduced around version 5 or 6. Same can be said for DSM. Neither the DSM or the ICD are books of fact. They are just guides, revised and changed as ideas of mental health and neurodevelopmental disorder change, and as society changes. Asperger's has now gone from ICD. So does that mean kids used to have Asperger's and now they don't? The ICD and DSM simply provide labels to describe a set of symptoms. The symptoms which comprise a label change with each revision. The labels themselves change as the manuals are revised.

Everyone is entitled to a different opinion of the ICD and DSM. Weewillie isn't wrong to point out the name changes in each new version. There are a great many crisiticisims of both ICD and DSM.

(anyway, I said I was dropping out, so I really will now...)

And if someone worked supporting homesexuals and wasn’t aware of the changes that would be ok would it? No of course not. If they referred to homosexuals as “whatever they’re called” would that be ok? They work with kids and families directly impacted by these conditions, knowing the names is basic. Absolutely basic. To use your “profession” to give yourself authority when you’ve not got the basics right is not acceptable.

I didn't say they called autism the R word just that they used the R word for a whole range of conditions that are now renamed. Yes I know it was 10 which you didn't know much about oddly enough. No I said "Whatever they're called" to highlight how changable the labels are.

Yes I know the DSM which is what I was on about. It is voted on and that is how it is written. I am fully up to speed, I have seen what they have admitted to about how it is created.

I'm not saying they are fully developed but what I am saying is that if someone says that a certain thing is not controllable because it is part of their condition then that also applies to adults with the same condition as development is at different rates is it not? Or do you think people with development delays suddenly hit 18 and all development becomes age appropriate? If not then it is safe to say that what a child experiences due to their development and adult can too if their development is at a slower rate. To say all adults can will have developed X by a certain age is wrong. I'm pointing out how you show a lack of understanding of that development.

I am making comments to prove a point nothing more, so you can think I am 12 emotionally or someone who has no clue but I'm neither I am ONLY commenting to highlight YOUR discrepancies either way I am showing inconsistencies in adults and children with disabilities as adults are assumed they must know and should be at age appropriate by 18 but kids can struggle. Adults can't still struggle as they know better apparently and will have all developed past this point.

On the upside your DH doesn’t seem so awful now 🤦🏼‍♀️😂

Thank you

The labels that were given are not changeable and indeed haven’t been for some time. As explained several times. Again as a professional you should know this. It’s basic.

I do know about 10, I’m not sure why you think I don’t.

And No, because a person has a condition that means something isn’t controllable at 12 that doesn’t mean it never is. ASD is a developmental disorder. It’s a condition that changes. Some children cannot speak at 5. That doesn’t mean they will never speak. Often social, emotional and communication skills are disordered or delayed. Emotional regulation comes in later. For a multitude of reasons. It’s not a condition where there is no change. That’s obvious. To anyone who knows anything about neurodiversity and kids in general. In relation to adults, pretty much yes. Development of skills, ability to acquire new things, adapt thought processes is significantly reduced when the brain is fully developed, some time before 25. Some adults won’t develop certain skills, of course, and those adults who are impaired shouldn’t have roles like you claim to have. So like I said pick a lane. You cannot have it both ways.

I actually haven’t seen anyone make the claims you’re stating - I’ve seen them call you out for not recognising that a 12 year old is not the same as an adult. Ever. That doesn’t mean some 18 year olds aren’t impaired, it just means 12 year olds are never adults.

This thread has really brought out the worst of people out. My blood is boiling for you @Fuckingfumin
please don’t encourage with these utter, utter plebs (I’m being super polite with that word)

Yes they have changed maybe you've not been in the game long enough to see the changes but some of us have seen many. It is basic.

Exactly thank you! You proved it just as I said. Development is not the same for every person so why the hell are we holding adults to a standard of that typical to all NT adults? The brain doesn't stop maturing at 25, it continues throughout their lives and 11 year olds make as complex decisions as 25 year olds who do not have development delays so we know very little about the brain but we do know it is NOT fully developed at 25.

Nope I've seen different I have seen many saying that as by the very token of calling me out does that does it not? That is telling me, that I shouldn't behave as I am as me being an adult should know better and should be the same as all other adults. Yes I have seen them saying children are different and we can't expect much from them as I said, working in the deficit but that is not how I work.

Sorry can you clarify where they changed exactly? What is your source for their ever changing names? You said the DSM was your source but that was published in 2013, updated 2022. Prior to that it was 2020. These aren’t frequent updates that would give you any kind of excuse for working in the field and not being familiar with the basis diagnosis.

The brain is fully developed and matured for all in mid 20’s. From that point on we experience cognitive decline.

No, it's time for you to realise that OP knows a hell of a lot more about her child than you do.

Yes there have been changes in each DSM and yes that is frequent changes as they happen as often as they are released. How often do you see changes in other medical conditions outside of that? Quite the interesting reasoning behind it.

No the brain is not fully developed, it changes and develops throughout their life, the magic 25 is what you're on about which is about a specific part of the brain but the brain itself continues to develop over time.

So you work with children with neuro disabilities and consider updating yourself every decade with the correct diagnosis beyond your capability?

Which specific bit of the brain do you think is fully developed and which bits do you think continue to develop beyond the mid 20’s?

You do realise that with every post, it's more obvious you don't actually know anything, right?

You've had your arse handed to you by posters who actually know what they're talking about. OP doesn't need you to de-rail the thread further, you can go back under whatever rock you came from.

No I don't at all as I do not consider them to be the correct diagnosis in many cases.

No I don't as the scientists admit that they do not know what the markers for maturity is for the brain. They see a time when some brains plateau in a certain area but then in many others it is not the case. They have not classified what a 'mature brain' is so they can't identify when a brain matures if they do not agree on what maturity looks like in the brain. I don't think any are as studies show that all the brain continues to change over time. Structural changes, growth changes, degeneration changes, plateau etc. Brains in most people look very different and so there is no set maturity of 25.

Apologies there was a typo. DSM was updated 2000, 2013 and 2022. Not 2020, 2013 and 2022. Which of course you knew. So actual question stands - given your profession you don’t think updating yourself every decade is appropriate?

You do realise with every post you are just proving my point more and more.

Nope I've been told that I should be better at communicating as I am an adult and adults know better. I've been shown that people on here do not support those with ASD who communicate differently.

Oh so it’s not that you cannot keep up with the decade updates, you don’t agree with the diagnosis? That tells me all I need to know.

scientists do agree. It’s the pre frontal cortex that matures at approximately 25. The bit that a 12 year old definitely isn’t able to use maturely. The other parts actually mature younger, the biggest leaps tend to occur before 6. But you know all this don’t you. You know that they thought 18 but have worked out now that mid 20’s is more accurate but this is impacted by many different things. But it does reach maturity. That part of our brain, indeed our entire brain, doesn’t keep maturing and developing our entire life. Although I suppose based on that perhaps you do have an excuse for not being able to learn the correct diagnostic terms eh 😉

Nope. No one said that ever.

I am still waiting for the updates about medical conditions, not sure why they don't update each decade, care to explain why?

No they don't at all. Sadly that shows you don't do much reading about the 25 thing! ha! Scientists do not agree at all. Because 1 person says it doesn't mean they agree, that is how science works and many studies dispute it.

They showed it.

That poster clearly doesn't work in the field at all (thank goodness).

They're just making stuff up as they go along 🤣