Does it really have to be like this with babies?

[Juno999]

Just from one or two friends who've had them in the last year. One friend says they won't be leaving the UK for several years now that they have a baby. It's not a monetary issue, they are very high earners.
I mean it's their choice of course, just seems a bit restrictive.
Both friends have incredibly strict naptime routines. Maybe it helps with the baby's sleep at night, but they will never deviate from the routines, the entire days revolve around them.
I suppose I was naive, I know some babies will only sleep in certain places but overall they're portable. I'd always thought I'd take my baby with my where I went, rather than limiting how much I can go out or do anything due to very strict naptimes.
Sorry if this all sounds naïve.

I didn't have a routine with either of mine, they napped when they were tired, wherever we may be. We never had to miss out on anything as they'd nap in the pram/buggy. They were awful awful sleepers at night. Didn't sleep through until 2 years old.

On the flip side I've just been on holiday with my sister in-law and family. They had a very rigid routine even from week 1 - waking baby up after so many hours and never letting baby sleep in someone's arms. On the holiday one of them would always miss out on things as they had to take their 18 month old back to the hotel room for her nap and could never join us in the evenings as their daughter has to stick to 7pm bedtime. Their daughter has slept through from 6 weeks old 7pm - 7am...

I was very relaxed about naps for the first 10months but not anymore. He needs to nap in the car or cot at set times or else he just won’t sleep. I’ve tried walking for hours in the pram & he won’t go no matter what. I tried to go to the zoo yesterday with a friend, tried to go with the flow & ignore the nap schedule & it was a living nightmare. Had a screaming baby who was awake for 8hrs despite being so incredibly tired & wouldn’t even fall asleep in the car. Lasted a whole 90mins at the zoo so that was a waste of money

Depends on a) baby's temparement and b) your own tolerance for discomfort, both psychic and physical.

DD is now 20 months and just wants to run away, everywhere, all the time. If I keep her on the baby leash she hates it and becomes very upset. If I let her off I'm constantly up and following her. So going out to restaurants etc is deeply unenjoyable.

The stationary baby phase is quite a short one. And it's amazing how irritating caring for a crawler/toddling child in a strange environment full of hazards where everything is exciting and new can be. "Holiday" isn't really an apt description for it. And then you have all the hassle of actually getting there, packing, getting through the airport etc. So the admin and journey are more stressful and then there is much less payoff at the other end in terms of actual relaxation. Unless there's a very good creche/kids club.

On the other hand, if the kids are enjoying it, then most parents take pleasure in their children having new experiences and in spending time with them. My older DC is of an age now where they are better able to enjoy going to new places. But it's still stressful because they won't eat any of the food - everything tastes funny apparently, the milk, fruit, cereal 🙄. So they have a diet of junk food when we're out of the UK and that naturally affects behaviour, which we have to manage. I guess it depends on the child and the place but I wouldn't say it's precious to find non-UK holidays with young kids more trouble than they're worth.

Mine were pretty portable and we tended to just take them with us, but we didn’t go to all the places we would have gone without them (theatre, for example, was not on our list without a baby sitter).

But we didn’t go abroad with them until they were 6. It’s not that you can’t, but for us, there just didn’t seem like enough of an upside until that age and there was plenty we wanted to do with them in the UK that promised to be a better return on effort for us.

Having babies/ kids dose tend to take over all other aspects of your life. For me it was way more then I expected.

But it's more complicated then a direct, not having time. Eg. I could get a babysitter and go out/ to an event or concert or whatever. What I don't have is the time or energy to follow intrests, keep track of what's happening that I might like to go to, or keep up as closer relationship with my kid free friend who I previously did that kind of stuff with. So now the best I tend to manage is a coffee with a friend who has kids the right age for mine to play with.

Likewise with your friend who plans to avoid foreign holidays, it's not that you can't take a young child, but by the time you've worried about finding kid friendly activities, protecting them from the sun, finding food they will actually eat, dealing with the out of routine tantrums or not sleeping in a new place etc. It's just not that much of a present experience for the parents anymore, so some will choose nor to bother.

I took DD1 on European beach holidays from 4 months and DD2 just seemed to slot in to whatever we did when she came along. But they both slept really well and would nap anywhere. Neither were fussy eaters.
We tended to book self catering so that there wasn't the palaver of dressing for breakfast and also had accommodation with 2 bedrooms so that we could all sleep well. Tended to have a lunch in the apartment so that they could nap in the afternoon which was needed as often out until quite late with dinner.
I remember these holidays very fondly. They were quite relaxing holidays, not crammed with activity though so wouldn't suit some.

DS didn't sleep through until he was 3, didn't fancy spending loads of money to be exhausted somewhere else.
He's five soon and travels well now.

I didn’t take mine abroad until they were 4 and 5 years old. At that stage they were much easier - didn’t need nappies/cots/naps etc, and were excited to try foreign food and a few words in the language. They tucked into everything from snails to pike in the Dordogne, and had fun trying to chat to local kids in the village. I took them on a boat through caves, which would have been a nightmare with babies or toddlers, and to sit with macaque monkeys and feed them - again, not practical when younger.
When they were babies, I only took them to visit MIL and FIL for holidays, in the U.K. Fortunately, they lived in the middle of a gorgeous national park, so it was no hardship.
As a widowed single mum, I don’t know how I would have managed abroad with babies. Once they were older, we went all over Europe and North Africa quite happily.!

I didn’t keep a rigid schedule with my first as I would’ve gone nuts staying in the house all day and then with my second our day was broken up with school runs etc. I did sleep train my first eventually for night time. I exclusively breastfed both so their food supply was portable. I had a little buggy that fully reclined and we didn’t have a car. Then a double buggy.

We travelled as much as we could and made a big international move with a tiny baby. Stressful at times but worth it. All that being said, my life still hugely changed!

I agree. I always say on threads like this that no one has a baby and thinks "ooh I hope I end up massively restricted by naps, and can't do anything I would normally enjoy!"

Exactly this. We've just done our first abroad trip with DS age 4 to Disneyland Paris and a short flight went well. We know he sleeps through now. We don't need a travel cot, buggy, nappy bag, formula, etc. We'll probably do a beach holiday next year when he is 5 or 6.

I never restricted myself around nap times.

Before i fell pregnant, i kept reading and hearing stories of how baby had to be in a sling all day, no time for a shower etc, baby in bouncy chair at the bathroom door etc just so you could shower…

it was NOTHING like that!!

i do think people make life hard for themselves, but you start as you mean to go on, don't make a rod for your back.

the other week a child came out of dds school looking for her mum, couldnt find her so i rang her (she was in dds class) and she was all in a flap as her daughter was suppose to be picked up an hour later but an after school activity had been cancelled. She’d put the baby for a nap and now was all in a tizz and kept saying “i dont know what to do now”

i ended up taking her child home as she didnt want to wake the baby!!

This is about you and your partner's parenting style and your baby's personality, none of which you can know with much certainty until your baby is here.

We have raised 3 with nothing as strict as a routine. But there was a natural pattern to our days, especially with the two younger ones because school run forces it on you.

Personally, I found breast feeding was much better for portability and fresh air and activities outside the house naturally led to naps in the buggy. But your baby will show you what they like and the two of you will work out what works for you.

I agree btw, the idea of a strict routine fills me with horror. My DB recently halted a family lunch for ten of us because his older toddler had to have her nap at precisely 1.30. I don't know what he thought was going to happen if she didn't. AND after all that she never actually slept.

Completely depends. I refused to go on a holiday unless it was a holiday for me, otherwise I’d rather be in the comfort of my own home. Trying to get a distressed child to sleep in a strange hotel/apartment is no pleasure cruise.

There are people who won't deviate by a minute from their schedule because they are following a specific routine, rather than because it will actually disrupt their baby in any significant way. I know she's not in fashion any more, but when I had my first baby, Gina Ford was still on the scene and lots of people blindly followed her strict routine and were restricted by it and it was nothing to do with the temperament of their babies.

All babies are different!!

DS was a very easy going baby. He liked to eat and sleep to routine, but really didn't mind where he did it. Home, out, buggy, cafe, abroad, all good.

DD would not sleep anywhere other than her crib, and that was massively hit n miss. She had massive FOMO and barely slept anywhere. Huge knock on effect to the rest of the family. No way was I paying to go abroad and feel like crap.

Other families I know did very strict routines - they knew what they'd be doing, where and when. It worked for them! Why not?

Doesn't have to be but all babies and families are diffeneet - my baby comes out and about and naps in his pram with me.

Not at all

I took one of my children to Turkey at 11 weeks

I took the same baby to Las Vegas when she was 7 months old

The other was in Kenya with us at 2 years

Nap times? Both flexible. Both were also breastfed until 18m so I had no choice but to haul them with me

They're very adaptable and just go with the flow, the most annoying thing is neither of them remember the amazing places they've been 🤦🏽‍♀️

My babies were fine. We had a routine with DC1 but if we changed for a trip out she would just adapt, napping in buggy or carrier whoever we went and eating what we ate once she was weaned. Went to USA when she was 11m old and we did some UK breaks before that. Have gone abroad most years since then, except 2020. Been to festivals and theme parks. She just slept on the plane with no issues. DC2 has been very laid back, has napped in carrier while we have days out with DC1, since she was born really. Has a bit more of a routine when DC1 is in nursery, but it's not really fair to confine a second baby to naps in a cot as it stops you getting out with the older child.

It might just be that we were very lucky with both dcs, but we're also not anxious parents and set up life to make it easy for the dcs, and give them plenty of active time so they're ready to nap when the time is right. Extended breastfeeding also helps as it's a great calmer and helps baby adapt to any situation.

We did revolve around naptimes a lot - but ours were buggy nappers so it wasn't too limiting, we would just time outings to make it work.

We did go abroad a few times but TBH I do understand why some people feel like it's just not worth it with babies/toddlers. It's a lot of hassle. I really feel the difference now that ours are 6 and 4, they are so much easier to travel with.

It is possible to go away with babies. It is possible to leave them with another living adult of an evening. However, when you live life with a baby, especially your first, you may find that you don’t want to go abroad (expense for a holiday you can’t really relax on, mental load of packing a LOT of things, worrying about baby’s health and routine on an exotic trip, baby crying on the plane, not being able to enjoy the things that would normally make a holiday fun - going out late, posh restaurants, sightseeing). Similarly the worries about breastfeeding (a small baby need feeding every three hours but might be hungry and crying for milk at ANY time.) You could pump but that’s quite a hassle and what if you don’t leave enough… will you want to take all your pumping gear with you and keep the milk at the right temp etc. Baby might prefer you for going to sleep.

All the above can be overcome and with a subsequent child you will get over the mental barriers quicker, but you may find staying in the UK or staying in seem more appealing.

I have 2, both EBF, so no need for a feeding routine; both loved sleeping anywhere but the cot in the day after 6 mos, so I had to be out of the house for naps. A bit more of a problem until I finished ML, but I live in Manchester, so jumped on the Metro, got a coffee in the city, and came back. Re travel, it depends where you go, we go to Isreal every year, is very child-focused, and we go as a whole extended family to my brother's house, so it's easy. If We were going mountaineering, just the 4 of us, then it would be hard

I didn't leave the country until my eldest was 9 and my youngest was 3. As pp have said, it depends on the babies.

Holidays with babies are not like holidays on your own, even if they're easygoing.

Holidays with toddlers are hell and I too stuck to nap times etc because I couldn't survive on no sleep at all and nap times allowed me to just about keep going.

Usually the ones telling me to 'just go with the flow' were not the ones managing the overtired meltdowns!