How to politely ask FIL to NOT touch me

[Bluesky5512]

I’ve known FIL for the last 15ish years. He is 75. He has been a thorough gentleman all through. Inlaws live in the US, we visit them every year. MIL passed away a couple of years ago in a sudden accident. Ever since FIL has been visiting us more often and at times staying for 2-3 months at a time. We stuck a friendship during his recent visits. We talk about politics, astronomy (is was a professor) and yoga (my passion). I see him as a father figure and a friend. DH works in a hospital and I work from home. I take FIL out and about with me - grocery, school runs etc

He has been acting weird lately. Pinching my cheeks, Putting his hands on my shoulder, and yesterday on my waist. WTF !! I was totally taken back and he doesn’t seem to realise. He was never a “creep” IYKWIM. But this touchy behaviour is making me very uncomfortable. I don’t know how to tell him to stop without ruining our friendship.

Oh Dear

Oh Dear Oh Dear

@GeorgiaLove what do mean by your three oh dears? Do you have a problem with women & girls saying no to unwanted touches?

I can confirm from first hand experience the accounts above of abuse.
Except for this:
Each girl (or mother of girl) thinks they are the only one and are special

Special? Not in my case. I just sat frozen.
And far from thinking I was the only one, I wondered if he was doing the same to my mother. My mother was oblivious, I didn't tell her because he was a close friend of the family who lived across the road from us, and I was afraid of challenging the family dynamic.

Both MIL and FIL were always hugs and kisses with their grandkids. Kids run to them and give them hugs on their own. I would however expect this to stop now that DD is 15 ! It’s not the same. She doesn’t seem to mind, but I think she is too young, naive to know and decide.

I've gotta be honest. Neither of them sound very nice or lovely as you're saying?
To blame you for another man (fil or not), touching you, is outrageous.
As for fil, yes he's old, but it sounds like his marbles are mostly in the right place. There's no way of saying stop touching me without kick off, it sounds like, because they're not that nice.
But you're going to have to do it because as you've inferred it could become a problem for your child.

I have a problem with people seizing a theme and thereafter manipulating it until it becomes all about MeMeMeMeMe. Emotional incontinence has no place in discussions of this genre. I have no problem "with women & girls [or men and boy, for that matter] saying no to unwanted touches", only with people who go up like a rocket at the slightest provocation.

How people react when you say “no” tells you a lot about their motivation and priorities. Just SAY you don’t like it/it makes you uncomfortable/it gives you the creeps. Then deal with the fall out.

i am sure op's DH is just in automatic denial, it is his own father she is talking about, so he would find any thing negative shocking as an initial reaction.

She didn’t say that. He’s recently bereaved and might just be missing some affectionate human contact - possibly reflected in this new behaviour. Losing a life partner can have strange effects on the emotions - as I hope you never find out for yourself.

This is a quote based on reason and logic, with a smattering of compassion. 💐

I can tell you unequivocally that my mother craved human contact and became much more touchy feely with the onset of dementia - and her carers say that this is quite common in their experience with both sexes. So why ‘just no’?

No, you’ve lost me here. You don’t like touching fine that’s your choice. But how is your daughter too old to be hugged by her grandfather? I hope I always hug my kids. My eldest is a young adult. I also hug my nieces and nephews, many of those are adults too, and their children. I love them all. Not everybody is a hugger and if any of them didn’t want to I wouldn’t force it, just like I wouldn’t force my own kids to hug anyone. But you are never too old, ever. Hugging and touching is more often affection, not sexual. Teach your daughter to follow her gut and stand up for herself and not do it if she doesn’t want to. But don’t teach her it’s naive to hug people she loves.

The signs of dementia are often not obvious to those closest to the sufferer. They can be subtle or often just an undertone. My own mum became very tactile at the onset of dementia, having never been that way before, so you could actually be experiencing the onset of fil’s dementia in the behaviour he’s exhibiting now - the fact that you say he displays this behaviour at times of excitement or activity is relevant too as stimuli has an effect on dementia. Or it could be as a result of his bereavement. Speaking from experience, when I lost my husband, the grief was actually worse in the second year and it had some very strange effects on my emotions. When I had counselling, I was advised that this is very common. Could it be that he is transferring some of the affectionate ways he had with his wife onto you, or is mishandling confusing emotions. Either way, you need to find a way to stop it as it’s clearly upsetting you and needs to be dealt with. Perhaps GP as a first port of call to make sure nothing is amiss health wise, and possibly a referral for grief counselling may help if he’s struggling.

Maybe but I find it odd that he only touches Op when her husband leaves the room or when he's not looking in their direction. That feels deliberate, someone who is in control of their emotions and aware of their surroundings.

I'm the same. Have, in the past, put up with behaviour from other people, cringed inside, and slunk away, annoyed internally. However I learned that it was better for me to say, "No, I don't want a hug", "no - I don't shake hands" or putting my hands out and saying "no thanks".

I did this to my father who, after years of intermittent abuse, thought we could be friends. He was wrong. 🌹

Did your mum put her hands on other women's bra straps or touch their waists?

Did your mum only crave human touch from much younger men and showed no interest in hugging her own kids because she only wanted to touch young men?

No, I thought not. This isnt merely about human touch FGS.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/advances-in-psychiatric-treatment/article/hypersexuality-in-dementia/E2CFB1E9F2791BBCAE15F9580388BD19

Are you saying that men with dementia are using it as an excuse? How disgusting!

Hypersexualised behaviour happens in both men and women with dementia. I did read another study that said it was more physical with men and verbal with women, but this study clearly says it's fairly common behaviour in both men and women.

There are some gross attitudes towards people with dementia and their behaviour on this thread.

OP your description of the touching episodes are giving me the creeps just reading them. I really think you should say to him that he is making you feel very uncomfortable. You said you told your daughter if she ever feels uncomfortable she should say I think you should take your own advice. Good luck OP

How about reading OP's updates and having compassion for her?

How about you don't presume that I haven't?

Funny how your compassion is all aimed at the man doing the touching - the man with a known sexist attitude to women, if you've read all OP's posts - and not at all toward the woman on the receiving end of his unwanted hand-on-the-waist, hand-staying-on-her-back, hand-on-her-shoulder touches. This from a man who didn't even hold hands with his late wife. But oh no, we're supposed to feel sorry for him.

Nothing you've written indicates you have, it's all Be Kind crap to another boundary-violating man.