Page 14 | How to politely ask FIL to NOT touch me

Bluesky5512 · 2023-07-30T06:38:54+00:00

I’ve known FIL for the last 15ish years. He is 75. He has been a thorough gentleman all through. Inlaws live in the US, we visit them every year. MIL passed away a couple of years ago in a sudden accident. Ever since FIL has been visiting us more often and at times staying for 2-3 months at a time. We stuck a friendship during his recent visits. We talk about politics, astronomy (is was a professor) and yoga (my passion). I see him as a father figure and a friend. DH works in a hospital and I work from home. I take FIL out and about with me - grocery, school runs etc He has been acting weird lately. Pinching my cheeks, Putting his hands on my shoulder, and yesterday on my waist. WTF !! I was totally taken back and he doesn’t seem to realise. He was never a “creep” IYKWIM. But this touchy behaviour is making me very uncomfortable. I don’t know how to tell him to stop without ruining our friendship.

user1492757084 · 01/08/2023 02:09

Would a simple - Oh please don't touch me - at the time, every time, do the trick. If he asks for an explanation say that you are a person who likes their own space.

If that won't fix it than ask your husband to politely ask him to stop touching you as you are not a touchy feely type of person.

WandaWonder · 01/08/2023 02:19

Ask him nicely to stop touching you, you are a grown up you don't need your husband to do anything just keep on asking him to stop

Marmitecrumpetswithalittlecheese · 01/08/2023 02:43

Agree with the infatuation thing, as your friendship has only developed recently. Maybe he feels like you have a 'connection'

willWillSmithsmith · 01/08/2023 08:04

ShiteRider · 30/07/2023 08:05

I have a family member who nursed a spouse through MND. They said that one of the hardest things was not having someone to hug them. Nothing remotely sexual.

I’m someone who really values human touch, I can’t imagine life without it.

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We’re all different. I don’t really like being hugged so it’s not something I’d ever miss. I’m not cold or unfriendly or anything like that but hugs aren’t something I ever crave.

bemusedmoose · 01/08/2023 08:31

I dont like people touching me either so i get it. Honestly i think he is probably just missing his wife, older couples often have a sort of language with small gestures like touching my granddad would put his hand on my nans shoulder and give her a little squeeze, her face would light up and she would pat his hand and smile. It was their little 'i love you'. You fil probably would reach out and just touch her while chatting and being around her and he might not even realise he is doing it, it becomes a habit. That doesnt mean you have to be ok with it. I would just say to him that you really love him and your time together but you arent the sort of person that likes to be touched so could he not do that. Also make your husband spend some quality time with him and give him a hug - some people cant be without human touch and it makes them feel so alone (not me - i more than happy with zero contact!)

Elfblossom · 01/08/2023 10:12

OP - are you touch avoidant with everyone in your life? Or just FIL?

I am a sensory seeker, my mother (wasn't great one in general) was a sensory avoider - she didn't do hugging or physical comfort, even for her children (though she was more physically affectionate with my brothers who she openly said were her favourite above my sister & me) ...

Not suggesting that anyone should allow being touched in any way that they don't approve of. I totally appreciate that sometime an outwardly 'innocent' word or action doesn't 'feel' innocent ... gut instinct is real.

SusieWicks · 01/08/2023 10:20

i hear you. I think it’s ok to name the elephant in the room and state your boundaries about this. It doesn’t have to ruin a friendship - but if he reacts badly to your boundaries and basic human rights to physical autonomy thats on him and not you. There is a kind way of doing this- simply explaining that it makes you feel uncomfortable when he touches your body without asking first. He probably will respond with a degree of shame or embarrassment and that’s his emotion to process and not yours, so don’t feel obligated to take it on. This doesn’t have to concern your DH directly beyond him being supportive in your own empowered communication here. You have gone above and beyond in showing your love and support here already and you are not obligated to run circles around either DH or FIL. The only reason why you stating your boundaries could compromise the friendship is when either man takes issue with your autonomy, self respect or needs and if that the case it’s his problem and not yours.

Also I’ll respond to the suggestions women made that FIL has dementia- just no. I think oftentimes men start to push boundaries and it’s not to do with decline- it’s a bid for dominance. Let’s not delude ourselves- as a species we are still affected by a degree of male narcissism (which is conditioned and established by patriarchal power structures and not women) and it’s a fools errand to make excuses for boys behaving badly.

We need to dismantle power structures gently and support our sisters in getting free and clear on our rights. Love to all ❤️

Mummy08m · 01/08/2023 10:42

SusieWicks · 01/08/2023 10:20

i hear you. I think it’s ok to name the elephant in the room and state your boundaries about this. It doesn’t have to ruin a friendship - but if he reacts badly to your boundaries and basic human rights to physical autonomy thats on him and not you. There is a kind way of doing this- simply explaining that it makes you feel uncomfortable when he touches your body without asking first. He probably will respond with a degree of shame or embarrassment and that’s his emotion to process and not yours, so don’t feel obligated to take it on. This doesn’t have to concern your DH directly beyond him being supportive in your own empowered communication here. You have gone above and beyond in showing your love and support here already and you are not obligated to run circles around either DH or FIL. The only reason why you stating your boundaries could compromise the friendship is when either man takes issue with your autonomy, self respect or needs and if that the case it’s his problem and not yours.

Also I’ll respond to the suggestions women made that FIL has dementia- just no. I think oftentimes men start to push boundaries and it’s not to do with decline- it’s a bid for dominance. Let’s not delude ourselves- as a species we are still affected by a degree of male narcissism (which is conditioned and established by patriarchal power structures and not women) and it’s a fools errand to make excuses for boys behaving badly.

We need to dismantle power structures gently and support our sisters in getting free and clear on our rights. Love to all ❤️

This is an interesting viewpoint and tbh I think I buy it.

I've admitted already I know very little about dementia - (my grandad had it after a stroke but it wasn't gradual onset, he went from his usual self to very disabled and not recognising anyone overnight, due to the severe stroke). I've tried to read more about it from the links and suggestions on this thread.

My no1 question is, do women tend to show this frisky behaviour during the onset of dementia? If not, is the dementia just removing the inhibition that the man had preventing him from doing what he'd like to do anyway? For example, my dh genuinely has no interest in younger women (he's not got a particularly strong sex drive at all and he really doesn't like touch/hugs etc except with trusted people). So if he were to get dementia, would it be unlikely for him to show this behaviour...? (I'm not actually asking anyone here, just thinking aloud! I will read more about it.)

In any case, if it is dementia and so not fil's "fault", that further reinforces that op's current strategy of not rocking the boat is probably the best one. And hopefully makes it more likely that it is just a phase and some other behaviour might emerge.

Original poster

Bluesky5512 · 01/08/2023 10:45

SusieWicks · 01/08/2023 10:20

i hear you. I think it’s ok to name the elephant in the room and state your boundaries about this. It doesn’t have to ruin a friendship - but if he reacts badly to your boundaries and basic human rights to physical autonomy thats on him and not you. There is a kind way of doing this- simply explaining that it makes you feel uncomfortable when he touches your body without asking first. He probably will respond with a degree of shame or embarrassment and that’s his emotion to process and not yours, so don’t feel obligated to take it on. This doesn’t have to concern your DH directly beyond him being supportive in your own empowered communication here. You have gone above and beyond in showing your love and support here already and you are not obligated to run circles around either DH or FIL. The only reason why you stating your boundaries could compromise the friendship is when either man takes issue with your autonomy, self respect or needs and if that the case it’s his problem and not yours.

Also I’ll respond to the suggestions women made that FIL has dementia- just no. I think oftentimes men start to push boundaries and it’s not to do with decline- it’s a bid for dominance. Let’s not delude ourselves- as a species we are still affected by a degree of male narcissism (which is conditioned and established by patriarchal power structures and not women) and it’s a fools errand to make excuses for boys behaving badly.

We need to dismantle power structures gently and support our sisters in getting free and clear on our rights. Love to all ❤️

thank you very much for this.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bluesky5512 · 01/08/2023 11:43

There was another pat on the back yesterday. I was showing FIL and DH something from a website. A specific type of light we were looking for. It was out of stock for months everywhere. The minute DH stepped out of the room, I got a multi pat applaud on my back. What I noticed is it’s NEVER in front of DH. Which kind of throws the dementia thing out of the window.

i don’t know what I’m dealing with TBH. I told DH yesterday. He was semi pissed off with ME - his default reaction always when I expect him to deal with any unreasonableness from his family.
I don’t care. I will continue to back off. After another touching yesterday, I’ve now decided not to involve FIL in any discussions. I will start taking away bits of “friendship” until he realises.

I also had a word with DD today. She doesn’t mind hugs etc. so no problem. I told her she doesn’t HAVE TO put up with it at all. At ANY point if she is feeling uncomfortable, there are ways to stop it without offending anyone.

OP posts:

tootallfortheshelf · 01/08/2023 11:47

Of course I hear the PP on 'dismantling power structures gently', but if this was me I would let him have it with both barrels and then I would reload before he had chance to draw breath.
I guess that's why no one ever tries that kind of sh1t with me 🤷

Catsmere · 01/08/2023 12:24

tootallfortheshelf · 01/08/2023 11:47

Of course I hear the PP on 'dismantling power structures gently', but if this was me I would let him have it with both barrels and then I would reload before he had chance to draw breath.
I guess that's why no one ever tries that kind of sh1t with me 🤷

Same. A friend's repellent BiL once did the paw on the back thing and my reaction was "Take your hand off me." He was so offended! He said "Nobody's spoken tome like that except my ex wife" to my friend. Obviously more women should have, the sleazy pig.

Eddielizzard · 01/08/2023 12:29

Well done. Honestly I'm cross with your FIL AND your DH on your behalf. I have a DH who also automatically sides against me in problems with his family and it is infuriating and exhausting. A clear indication that they are both drinking the FOG koolaid. grrr

SquirrelMadness · 01/08/2023 12:37

Dementia can cause quite big shifts in personality. So if someone with dementia becomes more frisky, starts pushing boundaries - it doesn't mean they always wanted to do that but now their inhibitions are lower. Dementia often causes people to become more aggressive, doesn't mean they always wanted to be aggressive all along! My grandma started swearing, I don't believe that she always wanted to swear before the dementia but held herself back. Her personality changed, as frequently happens in the early stages of dementia. It is not just about lowered inhibitions.

Also, I was in no way saying that OP should put up with the behaviour because it might be dementia!

Maybe this guy is just a bit of a perv and feeling like he can push boundaries now he's getting closer to OP. But I don't see why it's unreasonable to point out that this can be a sign of dementia and to just be aware.

@SusieWicks are you suggesting people with dementia should still be held accountable for their behaviour, or that people might be using dementia as an excuse to behave badly?? It's an awful, tragic disease.

I think OP should do whatever she needs to to feel comfortable, I'm in no way suggesting she let's FIL do whatever he likes just because it might be dementia.

Plumbuddle · 01/08/2023 12:41

Your daughter is in danger from this man and needs to see her mother being more assertive.

You can no longer play at being n adult over this. Step up and get him away from her.

Willmafrockfit · 01/08/2023 12:43

@Plumbuddle
that is a bit ott isnt it?
well the op will know - she can handle it

SquirrelMadness · 01/08/2023 12:45

Just to be clear, my point is - the earlier you can spot dementia, the more quickly you can access treatment to slow down the progression. That's why it's worth just keeping it in mind, not so that you can just ignore your own discomfort.

Plumbuddle · 01/08/2023 13:01

Willmafrockfit · 01/08/2023 12:43

@Plumbuddle
that is a bit ott isnt it?
well the op will know - she can handle it

She can't quite handle it yet as is needing to turn to a forum for advice. This guy, we are drip told, is operating very sneakily and she thinks she is the only target. That's how sex abusers operate in families. Each girl (or mother of girl) thinks they are the only one and are special. Only years later do the girls start to talk to each other as each has been silenced by shame. How to get to abuse a teenage girl with a mother is to check out whether the mother will squeal. I will bet money he is more interested in the daughter. His son is already tried and tested and does not stand up to him. The man is a menace but in ops shoes I would want to show some solidarity to my daughter. What girl needs to grow up seeing her mum unable to resist abuse.

Mummy08m · 01/08/2023 13:01

Op does he touch your dd as well? That'd be it for me. There's stuff I can put up with to keep the peace but if anyone went near my dd there's no crime I wouldn't commit.

I'm glad you told your dh in the end. Just to give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he needs time to reflect on it and think back on incidents he might have witnessed etc. But overall he sounds like a cowardly excuse of a man and I'd lose so much respect for him. Not being ok with other men touching your wife against her will is basic entry-level husbanding.

tootallfortheshelf · 01/08/2023 13:12

Each girl (or mother of girl) thinks they are the only one and are special
Also if you believe that you are the only one this is happening to you tend to (by default feel as if it's your fault) that something about you has made this otherwise innocent man commit this act. This increases the sense of shame and embarrassment and makes you unlikely to speak out. The perpetrator is aware of all this, they are very carefully feeling for exactly what they can get away with.

AcrossthePond55 · 01/08/2023 13:28

SequentialAnalyst · 31/07/2023 23:53

@AcrossthePond55 could there be a cultural issue at play here at all? Seeing as you're across the Pond...

I shouldn't think so. I'm huggy with certain people and not huggy with others. I think feeling uncomfortable with being touched (by anyone, really, not just a member of the opposite sex) is a personal boundary rather than a 100% cultural norm. Even in cultures where hugging/kissing are normal behaviours, there are going to be people who simply don't like it. And vice versa.

OP feels her FiL is crossing over to 'creepy'. I felt my FiL was 'intrusive'. Both were pushing our boundaries, intentionally or otherwise.

ZairWazAnOldLady · 01/08/2023 14:37

I think it’s inconvenient for dh to have to think about his dad being handsy. Turn round and say “oh don’t touch my back FIL it gives me the creeps”. Say it loud enough to be overheard.

GeorgiaLove · 01/08/2023 15:04

Denimdreams · 30/07/2023 07:57

Jesus Christ!
Women aren't support animals for men's needs!
So what if he needs " touch"
It's not for him to just go round touching anyone he likes.

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In the context of the original post, no need for such an (over)reaction. A bit of compassion and understanding, huh?

HopityHope · 01/08/2023 15:32

GeorgiaLove · 01/08/2023 15:04

In the context of the original post, no need for such an (over)reaction. A bit of compassion and understanding, huh?

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Yea because we are women and are trained to smile and accept low level abuse as we wouldn’t want the men to feel uncomfortable about their actions.

momonpurpose · 01/08/2023 15:45

HopityHope · 01/08/2023 15:32

Yea because we are women and are trained to smile and accept low level abuse as we wouldn’t want the men to feel uncomfortable about their actions.

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This! God forbid we teach our daughters to put up with unwanted touch out of "compassion " I'll be damned before I teach my daughter to put up with it because it's kind