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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How to politely ask FIL to NOT touch me

510 replies

Bluesky5512 · 30/07/2023 07:38

I’ve known FIL for the last 15ish years. He is 75. He has been a thorough gentleman all through. Inlaws live in the US, we visit them every year. MIL passed away a couple of years ago in a sudden accident. Ever since FIL has been visiting us more often and at times staying for 2-3 months at a time. We stuck a friendship during his recent visits. We talk about politics, astronomy (is was a professor) and yoga (my passion). I see him as a father figure and a friend. DH works in a hospital and I work from home. I take FIL out and about with me - grocery, school runs etc

He has been acting weird lately. Pinching my cheeks, Putting his hands on my shoulder, and yesterday on my waist. WTF !! I was totally taken back and he doesn’t seem to realise. He was never a “creep” IYKWIM. But this touchy behaviour is making me very uncomfortable. I don’t know how to tell him to stop without ruining our friendship.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
SequentialAnalyst · 30/07/2023 17:37

It's a hand on the shoulder that I hate. From anyone.

I was once just about to leave a meeting with someone in their office, when his boss came in. I had half-stood up to leave, I was going anyway. The boss, while still standing, said "you don't have to go just because I've come in" and with his hand, pressed firmly down on my shoulder so I had to sit back down. I protested that I was leaving anyway...

I think he thought he was doing a good thing - but didn't seem to realise physically preventing me from getting up was not appropriate.

I know this is not strictly relevant to your plight, OP, but it came welling up out of my memory, and I thought I would post it anyway.

mangochops · 30/07/2023 19:19

housingplanningquestion · 30/07/2023 16:23

'FIL, you've been more affectionate recently. I'm glad you are feeling welcome and comfortable with us. Can I ask you to stop touching me? I know you don't mean anything by it, but I'm not a person who is comfortable with casual touching. My personal space is very important to me. Is that OK? Do you think you will be able to change that behaviour?'

If he continues, 'FIL I've asked you to stop touching me. This is important. Are you forgetting that I've said that? What is going on here?'

If he still continues, medical assessment / stop seeing him. Would that work?

The problem with this approach is that its literally asking him if he's ok to stop. What if he says "oh dont be so silly, I'm not doing anything wrong!" what then?

A firm NO is far better as it doesnt allow or invite negotiation on his part.

tootallfortheshelf · 30/07/2023 19:24

she needs to go 'Grant Mitchel'
'OI BACK OFF GRANDAAAD'

SequentialAnalyst · 30/07/2023 19:41

Julian Clary came to mind as a role model "Don't touch me!" if any of the contestants on one of his shows tried to do it just as a natural part of the conversation, in any way.

SeamsLegit · 30/07/2023 22:19

Blossomtoes · 30/07/2023 10:22

I do. It always happens when everyone doesn’t unanimously agree with the OP.

Is it really that hard to understand that these situations gradually build up, and that people push feelings away and try to 'get on with things'?? The drip feed can happen when talking things over with others (like on mumsnet!) finally makes pennies start dropping and puzzle pieces slot together. Talking is the catalyst to realizing the full scenario - nobody is trying to pull the wool over YOUR eyes! This entire website is to HELP people, especially in situations where they don't feel able to talk about the issue in regular life. Be helpful or bugger off!

Mummy08m · 30/07/2023 22:25

SeamsLegit · 30/07/2023 22:19

Is it really that hard to understand that these situations gradually build up, and that people push feelings away and try to 'get on with things'?? The drip feed can happen when talking things over with others (like on mumsnet!) finally makes pennies start dropping and puzzle pieces slot together. Talking is the catalyst to realizing the full scenario - nobody is trying to pull the wool over YOUR eyes! This entire website is to HELP people, especially in situations where they don't feel able to talk about the issue in regular life. Be helpful or bugger off!

Yes. Especially as op seems to be outnumbered by men around her (dh and fil) who had convinced her that they're lovely while she is oversensitive.

These days lots of women, myself included, don't have enough of a support network of women around them, esp older and wiser women, who can reassure/advise/warn about this kind of thing. So women get swept along into situations that they aren't comfortable about and get slowly cooked like frogs before it gets too much to ignore and they reach out online.

housingplanningquestion · 31/07/2023 00:10

@PuzzledObserver @mangochops The reason I suggested that approach was twofold:

  1. OP has already said she is finding it very hard to broach it, feels guilty / worried / that she will be blamed or punished. If she could be direct and clear, that would be better, but that's not available to her currently.
  2. Asking FIL 'if he's ok with that' is an exploratory tactic, and strategic. Any direct challenge is likely to trigger his misogynist and chauvinism and entrench his position further. Appearing to give him a choice allows him the feeling of not being pushed around by a woman. God knows he sounds awful, but OP seems to want to keto the peace. And what's he going to say? 'No I want to keep touching you even tho you've asked me not to'? He must know he'd sound like an arsehole. And if he does say that, OP knows better what she's dealing with, and how to manage her next response (avoidance, sanctions etc).
mangochops · 31/07/2023 05:12

housingplanningquestion · 31/07/2023 00:10

@PuzzledObserver @mangochops The reason I suggested that approach was twofold:

  1. OP has already said she is finding it very hard to broach it, feels guilty / worried / that she will be blamed or punished. If she could be direct and clear, that would be better, but that's not available to her currently.
  2. Asking FIL 'if he's ok with that' is an exploratory tactic, and strategic. Any direct challenge is likely to trigger his misogynist and chauvinism and entrench his position further. Appearing to give him a choice allows him the feeling of not being pushed around by a woman. God knows he sounds awful, but OP seems to want to keto the peace. And what's he going to say? 'No I want to keep touching you even tho you've asked me not to'? He must know he'd sound like an arsehole. And if he does say that, OP knows better what she's dealing with, and how to manage her next response (avoidance, sanctions etc).

Fair enough, those are good points! But I do think he'll try to wriggle out of it by brushing it off if he's given a choice to be ok with it or not, especially if he has very strong views that men are the head of the household and women are subserviant, you know? I also think the more women firm up their boundaries, the more comfortable we'll feel doing it, we dont need to ask if men are ok with boundaries because boundaries are chosen by us and others can equally choose their own.

Catsmere · 31/07/2023 05:34

@Dibbydoos

Do you know why you don't like to be touched? If you do share that with him.

Why the hell does OP have to share anything with him? Why does she have to supply a justification?

Catsmere · 31/07/2023 05:36

SouthLondonMum22 · 30/07/2023 11:43

Except he isn't touching his own son more, he's touching you. Just you. More.

Losing his wife doesn't give him the right to touch you as he pleases.

Also makes me wonder why his own daughter doesn't care much ...

Catsmere · 31/07/2023 05:43

lemmein · 30/07/2023 16:10

'Oi, Mr Handsy - rap it in or I'll chop it off!'

Or....you could do a dramatic scream every time, like that Catherine Tate character who is startled by everything! Grin

Seriously though, I would really hate this, a hand around the waist is really quite intimate. It sounds like he's escalating too, pinching cheeks to touching your shoulder and now your waist - it's not ok and you're more than reasonable to tell him bluntly to keep his fucking hands to himself.

I'm wondering how long it'll be before he paws her breasts.

Bluesky5512 · 31/07/2023 08:06

@Dibbydoos Are YOU ok with people randomly touching you at will, rubbing their full palm on your back for a good 5 seconds (like they are feeling your bra). WHY would anyone be ok with this? And once this happens, even a simple shoulder touch becomes unacceptable.

OP posts:
PuzzledObserver · 31/07/2023 09:04

Bluesky5512 · 31/07/2023 08:06

@Dibbydoos Are YOU ok with people randomly touching you at will, rubbing their full palm on your back for a good 5 seconds (like they are feeling your bra). WHY would anyone be ok with this? And once this happens, even a simple shoulder touch becomes unacceptable.

God, OP, that’s dreadful! My skin is crawling just reading that. Yes - once a certain point is reach, earlier things which you were able to see as innocuous suddenly look very different.

Have you decided on your approach yet?

Many years ago, there was a man in my church who did similar….. a handshake at the peace would linger just…. too…. long. He also had a really weird and disgusting way of raising an eyebrow while looking you up and down. There was more as well - things he said to, and about, women.

I spent many a sleepless hour going over in my mind what I was going to say to him. I came up with the perfect, calm formulation of words. Then when I went in the next time I knew he would be there, all prepared to say it, my adrenalin was so high I was practically hyperventilating and on the verge of a panic attack. So I said nothing, and resorted to physical avoidance (piece of furniture between).

He knew what I was doing, and on one occasion objected because someone else had had a kiss and he hadn’t. I didn’t respond.

So, I was a coward. He lost one victim, but was able to carry on with impunity with all the rest.

It is so, so hard to call this stuff out - especially when there are extenuating circumstances, like in my church, where everyone is supposed to be nice, or in your family, your poor widowed fil etc.

So, so hard. Take courage. You don’t have to allow him to paw at you. The thing is…. you asked how to ask him politely….. why is that? Is it because part of you thinks his behaviour is unintentional and he’d be mortified if he thought you were upset by it? Because the more you say, the less likely that seems to be the case.

There is still the dementia possibility, and someone has sent you some helpful resources on how to deal with that. But even if he is in the early stages of dementia, he should still be able to understand the word No.

PimpMyFridge · 31/07/2023 09:18

Catsmere · 31/07/2023 05:43

I'm wondering how long it'll be before he paws her breasts.

Accidental brush with the back of the hand... You have to boil your frog slowly. 😟

FunGamesStuff · 31/07/2023 09:23

Bluesky5512 · 31/07/2023 08:06

@Dibbydoos Are YOU ok with people randomly touching you at will, rubbing their full palm on your back for a good 5 seconds (like they are feeling your bra). WHY would anyone be ok with this? And once this happens, even a simple shoulder touch becomes unacceptable.

You let him do it and you don't say anything?????

I find that weirder than the rubbing.

Just ask him to stop. If he doesn't mind great and if he does mind why would you care???

"Can you not touch me like that, or any other way, I really, really don't like it. Thanks".

That's it. It's pointless getting angry and trying to work out his motives. Just ask him to stop.

If he continues then that's another issue but all this Mumsnet drama is crazy over something that is so minor.

I HATE being touched so I do understand why you dislike it. I actually don't like being touched by friends. I'd rather not kiss or shake hands with anyone other than close family and, occasionally, a friend.

monsteramunch · 31/07/2023 09:29

@FunGamesStuff

You let him do it and you don't say anything?????

I find that weirder than the rubbing.

What a disappointing post.

On top of it taking someone a few seconds to register what's happening when it seems out of character / odd / unsettling (like what her FIL has done re touching her), it's not 'weird' at all to freeze once it is registered.

Fight, flight or freeze. All common responses. Not weird.

FunGamesStuff · 31/07/2023 09:36

@monsteramunch I completely get not doing something about it for the first few times and I completely understand being in situations where you do nothing because you are uncomfortable and confused but this has been happening to the OP for a while now and she says she likes him and has a 'friendship' with him.

Maybe he is a creep who is trying to push his boundaries I don't know but regardless of the reason the OP needs to actually ask him to stop. Or ask her husband to stop or SOMETHING!

This is someone the OP say she likes. Why wouldn't she ask him to stop? I find it odd. Sure it's a little awkward but if he is a nice guy he will be happy to have been told and if he isn't happy to be told who cares???

Mummy08m · 31/07/2023 09:39

FunGamesStuff · 31/07/2023 09:23

You let him do it and you don't say anything?????

I find that weirder than the rubbing.

Just ask him to stop. If he doesn't mind great and if he does mind why would you care???

"Can you not touch me like that, or any other way, I really, really don't like it. Thanks".

That's it. It's pointless getting angry and trying to work out his motives. Just ask him to stop.

If he continues then that's another issue but all this Mumsnet drama is crazy over something that is so minor.

I HATE being touched so I do understand why you dislike it. I actually don't like being touched by friends. I'd rather not kiss or shake hands with anyone other than close family and, occasionally, a friend.

Freezing is an extremely common response. I have done it and I'm seen as a strong outspoken type. It's involuntary. I hope you don't have daughters or nieces because sadly something like this may one day happen to them and I hope you don't say "why didn't you say something".

Op also says she thinks her dh wouldn't support her in any overt reaction.

Op you don't owe this man any more of your time or conversation. If I were you I'd tell your dh and go very low contact with FIL. Not because he's a man to protect you as others have suggested above but because he's the family link. Tell him what you've said here about the duration and location of touching. Tell your dh what outcome you are choosing (eg low contact, no 1-1 meetings).

If dh doesn't support you in this, then deal with that as a separate problem. Personally I'd be reassessing my actual marriage if my dh could condone someone touching me against my choice.

I don't think I could keep something like this from my dh. It's not a partnership if you have to worry about this alone.

FunGamesStuff · 31/07/2023 10:07

@Mummy08m Did you actually read what I had written in my post! I KNOW freezing is a normal reaction but OP talks about having a friendship with her FIL and liking him and this touching has been going on for a while. She has had a long to ask him to stop but still doesn't.

Mummy08m · 31/07/2023 10:14

FunGamesStuff · 31/07/2023 10:07

@Mummy08m Did you actually read what I had written in my post! I KNOW freezing is a normal reaction but OP talks about having a friendship with her FIL and liking him and this touching has been going on for a while. She has had a long to ask him to stop but still doesn't.

Op is clearly intimidated. She says dh would say she's being oversensitive. Op mentions fil's recent bereavement as if it is relevant - imo it isn't - which is another indication that she's scared she'd be made out as the unkind one in telling him to stop.

I completely understand why op hasn't said anything (yet).

And if it was me I wouldn't say anything either. You can't reason with men like this, at least not keeping the friendship. Men like this are so astonished to be told they're out of order, the only way they can cope with the cognitive dissonance is to tell themselves that the woman is at fault (oversensitive, imagining things, etc etc).

Imo the friendship is over, there's no point explaining to fil why, just not see him any more.

pinkyredrose · 31/07/2023 10:45

Bluesky5512 · 30/07/2023 15:33

I haven’t told DH yet. I feel he’ll say I’m being overly sensitive. His mom was a bit of a narcissist, so he struggles to see the shit his parents do and even if it’s obvious, it’s just easier for him to blame me rather than stand up to them.

Not sure i like the sound of your husband. Does he often blame you for things that are outside of your control?

Bluesky5512 · 31/07/2023 10:46

Just to clarify, friendship has been going on for a while. He visited us many times in the past, 2-3 months a time. Zero touching. It was never a part of our equation. This trip, he landed here towards the end of June. Touching thing is a brand new thing. Started with a quick pat on my shoulder, then cheek pinching and then back rubbing, waist touching. It’s not constant, very sudden and unexpected. I get very uncomfortable and pull back instinctively. Many times I noticed this happens when I am restricted. For example, I was walking on a narrow footpath, he was excitedly chatting about something funny. Laughing etc and then came to my side and put an arm around my waist. I couldn’t escape that. But WTF .

OP posts:
Bluesky5512 · 31/07/2023 10:59

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I read every single response and I am truly grateful.

I decided not to say anything now. BUT, I’ve massively cut down on conversation and friendship. I do speak to him, but from a distance. I’m not taking him when I go out. He does when DH can come and I sit at the back. If he is in the room, I sit furthest from him and walk away after a few mins.

Creep or not, he doesn’t do this to others - so why me? and I think my response was enough to tell him I don’t like it. I think the friendship ended the minute I started feeling uncomfortable. I realise I don’t owe anyone my company or friendship.

OP posts:
Bluesky5512 · 31/07/2023 11:00

pinkyredrose · 31/07/2023 10:45

Not sure i like the sound of your husband. Does he often blame you for things that are outside of your control?

Yes. Only when inlaws are on the other side.

OP posts:
northerncrumpet · 31/07/2023 11:17

Yeuch...well done for managing the situation, it's very difficult not to freeze when this kind of stuff happens. Whatever the "reason" for him doing this - and from your recent posts it now doesn't sound quite as innocent as I hoped it might be - you need to protect yourself first, last and foremost; and if he or your DH have an issue with that then they need to think about their behaviour towards you!

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