To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

which they call a Widows Pension.

They shouldn't really.
There is a widow's pension and it's a state benefit paid to some widows, but under the age of 45.

This wins the award for most frustrating thread ever

Not true. If you have POA you don’t have to prove incapacity to the bank unless there is a restriction in the document (which is relatively uncommon)

Yes, you do, it's the main condition of a POA that it can't be used until the person no longer has mental capacity.

"Once the LPA has been registered and you have determined that the person who made it no longer has mental capacity, you will be able to start using it."

https://www.rochelegal.co.uk/news/how-to-start-acting-as-an-attorney-with-an-lpa/

Oh dear seems like my lifetime of being a private client solicitor has been a waste of time 😂
If you look at that article it doesn't actually say what you imply it does.
The law is the when you take out an LPA for financial matters unless you restrict it it can be used straight away after registration. It is dual purpose unless it has a restriction

You’ve had good advice on this thread. We can’t help you, unless you help yourself. Which is exactly what you should be saying to her.

Neither of you want to get out of your comfort zone and actually change your own behaviour to change the situation. And if you don’t change your own behaviours nothing is going to change. Unless you put in those strong boundaries which you don’t seem willing to, then nobody can help you with your mothers behaviour and she’ll just carry on,

Kazzy - you really arent correct on when you can use POA. The Health and Welfare is limited to when the person has lost capacity.

The financial one is NOT! I have registered POA with various banks over the years for both my Mum and late Father.

There is no limitation on using the Financial one and they can be used even if the person has capacity which both of them did. I think you really need to stop making daft statements.

@Idlovetoknow for the sake of your sanity and your brothers. Both of you need to step back. If your brother doesn't worry, why are you. Yes she maybe frittering it away but it's hers to fritter. It's galling I feel your frustration. If my mother had won 2 million on the lottery she'd have blown it. Detach and move forward with your own life. Your brother isn't bothered which is healthy

At the moment neither of us need a POA so if mooted by the children would be politely declined. But the day will come when we're in our 70s onwards when it may be a good idea. While we're still running a company, lending our children money as and when they require it. We're not so keen

This. Lots of older pensions still have a ‘widow’s pension’ on their older gold plated final salary pension (and they mean widows - legally married only).

They are almost all received by women with high earning (often older) husbands.

She has to have capacity in order for her signature on the paperwork to be valid, and the financial poa can be used immediately.

This is incorrect. I have an LPA for both health and financial for my mum. The financial part can be used immediately on registration, whether the person has capacity or not. And you can’t just determine yourself whether a person lacks mental capacity - it’s a legal term with serious consequences for the individual concerned, and requires specialist assessment.

Sorry, my bad, I meant to say provide proof of the LPA to the bank - got my language muddled reading another post on the question of capacity, which I understood to be a legal term and quite a big deal as it can have far reaching consequences for the person concerned. The point I was making was that even with a financial LPA the attorney can’t just do what they want with the donors’ bank account, as that poster was suggesting - they have to involve the donor in decisions as far as possible and make sure they are in the donors’ best interests, keeping appropriate records of transactions.

You need to draw hard boundaries with her and minimise contact. Giving her more attention now might make it worse because narcissists crave control and attention.

Don’t clear the house yourself. Use a house clearance company. Honestly cannot recommend this enough.

If she wants your help, she has to give you the receipts etc. I think she might be up to something you don't know about oherwise.