To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

Will she let you go through her bank statements with her?

No and dh and I have been asking for months for her statements and outgoings and the letters from the financial advisor and tax advisor because she was whining no one helps her, but you get half a story with her and then tears and then she flits to something else and it’s very hard to keep up. Plus she has very unrealistic expectations that like I can give her financial advise to make her money multiply but I’m not even a financial advisor

It doesn't make much difference... but her costs as you have described them add up to more like £1700 than £1300.. your maths is a bit off.

She just goes off on one and everytine she visits she forgets, she lives far away so it’s quite hard to just get up and go to her house to go through it, plus it’s actually really emotionally hard for me to be there since my father passed

I must have missed something when I totted it up going back and forth from mn to my calc, Ive over estimated a lot of her expenses too

Does she want listened to as a vent, helped or you to step in and give her money?

I was gonna say the same, car loans / credit card debt /compulsive online shopping.
Need to check her bank statements with her. She could have a direct debit into savings account that she's forgotten about. Or could be doing monthly direct debit charity contributions/helping out one of your siblings with childcare fees or something. Or paying for a bunch of services shes not using/forgotten about, window cleaners, gardeners, boiler service etc or just had some decorating/maintenance work done.

I’d be tempted to stop listening to her then and reply with something like…”I’ve offered multiple time to help look through your bank statements but you never bring them. There’s no point repeatedly talking about it. If you bring your statements I’ll help you look through them but there’s no point is repeatedly talking about how worried you are if you won’t do anything about it”.

sounds harsh but I couldn’t put up with that flitting about. Unless you think she is loosing capacity to manage her finances?

My FiL spends all his money on people from Africa who target him on social media and spin him stories and need plane tickets to the UK and money for accommodation.

Widow pension of £1600 sounds high- are you sure?
That would suggest her DH was on £75-80k pre retirement (pension at 50% and then reduced by half for widow)

Thank you.
I didn’t know that.
My 82 year old mother gets this too.

Either she wants/needs help or she doesn't....and you want to help or you don't/can't. But either way it is all too vague to give any proper advice here. You cant do anthing without the full picture.

Mum, you need to show me everything so I can help you. Otherwise stop moaning.

I’ve severely overestimated her costs, she gets single occupancy on everything. Her house is big and shopping around is something she just isn’t mentally capable of

Has she always been an anxious person? If not, I would take her for a GP appointment to check there is nothing else eg dementia going on as my grandad became very concerned about issues he had no problems with previously when he first became ill with Alzheimer’s. Hopefully not but worth a check!

My Mum gets more than this as half my Dad’s pension.

Final salary index linked. All those things we dream of!

He was likely on more than that but yeah that’s correct. Dfs pension was well over 3k

Make sure she has both a health and a financial power of attorney in place before doing anything. Also if she plans any estate planning, do this in advance. Solicitor, will etc.

Have you considered it may not just be about the money? Could she be at early stage dementia or Alzheimer's? Horrible to suggest but sometimes when people start to loose memory their ability to understand their spending and being able to remember what they've bought can be one of the first things to go. Additionally sometimes stress or worry can display in a way that isn't reflective of what they're actually worrying about but instead manifests in a different way.
Perhaps you could find more visual ways to show her where her money is going in the meantime to ease her worries.

OK. If her salary is net, it's likely she's paying at about 25% on the rest of her income so the net amount is likely to be closer to £3125.

Outgoings assuming one cat

I think some of your estimates may be low

Council tax: 300 more than est
Utilities 250 more
Human food 200 slightly less
Pet food 100 ?
Pet insurance 80
Car 450 (incl ins. Servicing?)
Petrol 100 ?
Health insurance 250 more
Sky 50 toppy
Phone 50 toppy
Netflix? 13
House insurance 80
Lunch at work 100
Birthday presents/Xmas 150
Socialising? 100
Hair/clothes/make-up 150
Holidays 250
House maint/repl White goods: 200?
Misc weekly spends £150

That adds up to £2485. Possibly not as flush as you think but still able to save £500/£600 pcm.

The other thought op is whether this could be a genuine early manifestation of dementia.

I’m the only one with kids and she doesn’t help out there. I honestly have no idea and she’s being so so vague and just buries her head in the sand

Is she confused? Any sign of dementia?

Any chance she’s fallen victim to a romance scam? It sounds far fetched but there’s so much of it goes on these days and the victims are very embarrassed and often try to hide it. From what you’ve described, she’d be the perfect target as she’s widowed with a lot of money.

My industry still gives final salary pensions to new starters (probably not all roles, but a lot), so I don’t think I will ever leave 😁

My DP have an income of £4000 a month and spend it ok
mid 80s- not extravagant spending

Is it just because she's adjusting to not have your dads full income eg the fact she can't have 5 holidays & first class flights now?

My mum doesn't get anxious but does sometimes think she's poor, she isn't at all.