To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

Eating out? Frittering away on small purchases or clothes? Online shopping?

She's only 68 and she 'runs the show' at work, so doesn't really sound like an elderly vulnerable person. More likely a woman who's always had so much money she never needed to bother to develop financial literacy skills and so is simply disorganised and bad with money. As she doesn't lack capacity, I don't think your concern need to be what's she's spending it on, as much as how can you get her to stop ringing up and half involving you. Personally I'd be steering her back towards pressional financial advice, which she can either take or leave. But unless I had reasons to doubt her capacity to manage her affairs due to a cognitive issues, I'd be stepping back. She's a grown up and needs to take responsibility.

with all those pensions its possible something has gone adrift with the amount of tax ....

There's an expensive toy boy, OP. You'll be calling him Daddy by christmas.

You need to visit her & go through everything just to be certain she’s not being scammed & asap; if she’s working etc she must be mentally on point? Do something more sinister is going on do you have any siblings? Awful as it is could one of those be helping themselves to her cash; without her knowing? I know all of these scenarios are horrible but it’s awful how many people gets robbed by family members x

I'm 68 wish I had her money £700 state pension £76 .00 private pension own my house out goings £ 275 my car 4x4 is 28 yrs old I live fine

Not really, there'd be no tax deducted from the state pension and the maximum deduction for tax from other sources is limited to a maximum of 50%, so her "take home" will be a minimum of half the wages and occupational pensions added to the state pension in full. And if she's having 50% tax deducted from any or all of her income besides state pension, she'd get a tax refund each year when HMRC do their "round up" usually in the Autumn.

Very quick and haven’t read everything sorry, honestly sounds like she has ADHD.

Nah, @Isaidnomorecrisps, the OPs DM is old. So if we're going to diagnose her with anything, it's dementia, which has already been suggested dozens of times.

For once, ADHD had barely had a mention.

I think the main person behaving badly here is the OPs mother. No need to cast around for villains and she certainly doesn't sound like any kind of a victim.

I think you said up thread that she was spoiled by her father, spoiled by her husband and is now trying it on with you. Can you visualise how you would respond to a tantrumming toddler? Albeit this one comes with all the manipulative whiles of a lifetime of getting her way.
She may well be anxious about money because it has flowed like a tap into her wasteful hands all her life, and it is likely she will never change her ways.
In your shoes I would practice some phrases then rinse and repeat. Try not to get sucked in.
Sounds awful for you though , you and your husband working all the hours and her shopping like a demon and then wailing about her dwindling savings.

Wow, OP, not sure if you will see this because you got a really hard time on here, some world class fuckwittery going on. When my mum died my (historically very difficult) step dad wanted to be quite dependent on me. I had to be very clear with him about what I could and could not do, and that there were things that I could not help him with, but if he wanted I would set him up with people who could help him. I don't know how amenable your mum will be, but the best thing anyone told me was 'nothing you will do will ever be good enough, so dont feel like you have to try'. It was very freeing - I put in as much effort as I can, but dont feel guilty if the demands on me are unreasonable or I have to say no to them. It was really hard for my step dad, as he had been quite dependent on my mum for a lot of things, and he was quite scared (without admitting it). Sounds like there is some of that going on here.

PCP’s are an absolute con for elderly people. My in laws were paying £400 a month for a Toyota Yaris (this was 6 years ago, probably much more now) they continue to upgrade to the same make/model every 18 months as someone from the garage sales office rings them and offers them a new one. They’re in their 80’s and can quite easily afford a nice little runaround outright for the errands they run. They’re totally sucked into the sales spiel. I dread to think what service plan they pay on top.

In general I think their generation are ones who have decent pensions, a good monthly income but they’re absolutely conned into thinking the need to overpay for things. They don’t get quotes for jobs, just pay whatever they’re told, they have private healthcare/dental cover, any time anything in the house is more than a couple of years old it gets replaced and always from John Lewis regardless of cost. It’s totally up to them what they spend their money on, I just worry about the amount they waste because someone has convinced them it’s what they need to pay.

My in laws do this. Every time something breaks, straight to John Lewis regardless of price. My MiL has just bought an iPhone (just the phone itself) outright from there despite her phone provider offering her one with no interest as part of her monthly contract. Then she was pissed off when EE wouldn't set it up for her/transfer all her stuff in store!

I wouldn't criticise buying a phone outright. Most of the time it is genuinely cheaper to do that and take out a SIM only plan than pay for a phone on a contract.

Probate would not be needed if all assets held as joint tenants - they pass to the survivor on proof of death.
Assets in sole name may or may not need probate - depends on the type of asset and value

As far as Power of Attorney is concerned, if mum signs one then op could use to contact banks etc while mum still has capacity. PoA has a dual function unless restricted.
General Powers if Attorney could also be set up quickly and allow OP to contact financial institutions.
Mum’s Co-operation needed though

Ah, thanks I didn't know that about joint tenants.

Is she one of those people that thinks she is broke because she doesn’t have £3k plus in her current account at all times?

But seriously maybe she has racked up some debt she is struggling with. I would definitely try and encourage her to share with you so you can help. Good luck OP.

It wasn't in this case.

There's also phones, and there's phones.

I buy a new phone every 3 or 4 years when I see a good offer on a half decent Android, on Black Friday or similar. None of these have cost more than £150 and I usually sell the old one for about £50 on ebay.

Compare with the cost of getting a new iphone every time it comes out and letting the old one sit in a drawer, giving it to a family member or just recycling it because it's broken (none of my phones have ever been broken and am not especially careful, have dropped a few) yet a lot of people to be continually breaking their phones. The cost of doing phones this way is enormous.

@Idlovetoknow she sounds like my mother but with more money (although whatever mine has she would absolutely spend!). Down to the childish refusing to talk to you if you don’t meet her unreasonable expectations and the ‘golden child’ brother who does sweet FA except to constantly drain her finances and cause additional drama.

The expectations that I rescue her (from financial woe, plus any other issue she has - she was quite perturbed that I wasn’t a tv electrician the other day) are constant, unreasonable and stressful. It is a complete 1 way street of tale and no give, and you have your own stressors and life to manage.

She is an adult woman who is responsible for herself. She is not your responsibility; your child is. I say this as it’s what I gave to tell myself constantly (although I’m not very good at doing it consistently!!).

She is looking for your pity as her narcissistic supply (and possibly a actual financial hand out - which will prove your love and her wonderfulness of course!). I’d hazard a guess that even if you added the extra stressor of driving up there, the financial papers would be ‘lost’ and you’d get tears and drama rather than any actual solutions!

She needs to go back to a financial advisor and get them to sort it, or bring all her papers down next time she visits. I would broken record that, and refuse to engage in further conversation about it.

Don’t know if it’s of help, but this book was really useful to me: You're Not Crazy - It's Your Mother: Freedom for daughters of narcissistic mothers - new edition
https://amzn.eu/d/3rOLkqX

Good luck! X

There also seem to be loads of people who continue paying the "full" monthly contract price long after the contract period has expired instead of moving to a cheaper "sim only" tariff. I just don't understand them at all. It's often just a click of a button on the mobile phone's app and they could save £10-£40 per month easily. And yes, those who just churn the contract into a new phone for no real reason. The mind boggles at the amount of money people waste.

to be honest, it sounds more like depression to me. also lack of company. contact bank and get online access to all her accounts and credit cards etc. you can then work things out in your own home when kids are in bed

Dementia.
Fear of keeping records of finances.
Ask her if you can help. Get all the info together, and go through it until she knows where she's up to.

I had DO tax code when I changed job. I didn’t notice as I’d taken a drop in salary and expected a lower income. 3 years later I spotted it. One phone call to HMRC and it was sorted over the phone and a lump sum for overpaid tax was put into my bank account within 2 weeks.
However I don’t think this is your main problem. Your mum’s behaviour is screaming narcissistic personality type. This is not a diagnosis or label just a way of describing the behaviour. You’ve probably been controlled and treated like this all your life. Which is why you are still trying to help her despite her unreasonable behaviour. I suggest you spend time understanding narcissism and the effect it has on you, so you know how to deal with it. If you don’t have time then listen to a podcast. Mel Robbins podcast on this subject is an eye opener if you’ve never considered narcissism before.