To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

That’s a great post from Kazzyhoward OP, explaining how hard it is for her. And that’s her job, she’ll get paid for it and she’s not emotionally involved. You already have a job and 2 small children; you can’t possibly take this any of this on. I agree with others it’s pointless asking to see the paperwork- you don’t have time to look at it.

You just sound too nice; too patient, too helpful. You do just have to stop. Next time she complains about her tax, just say it’s the same for everyone! Next time she complains about being £400 short, tell her to sell some investments, next time she says she can’t afford the phone, tell her to sell the sports car.

The reality is she has so many assets that she could use to generate funds should she really need to. She also works 20 hours has no dependents, so she has time to sort out her own problems.

She’s 68, not a doddery old lady. She’s perfectly capable of organising things that she wants like her holidays. Next time she moans, just say, mum I really don’t have time! Because you really don’t!

FIL has about half a million in cash and in the last couple of years has started worrying about not having enough money. I think it's an age thing

But I don’t owe you a grand existential awakening

im not an idiot, I grew up with her, im very aware of how my childhood/ adolescence/ young adulthood was with her. I’m aware of what is and was abuse. I’m aware of the narcissism and the scapegoating. I had bereavement counselling and they focus on the family unit. But I don’t owe this thread that whole back story. Boundaries and my relationship with her, is literally a daily struggle to unlearn what I spent the best part of 30 years learning and trying to create boundaries that don’t run myself into the ground. One of which I was bashed over the head with on here, I’m not going down up and down in a day when it’s what will run me into the ground but look that the hard time that got me.

without sounding like a gold digger I do have personal interest in the money my dad left as it was left for me. However she clearly knows that and is exploiting it.

thanks, I think that’s me done on the thread

thanks to all that gave advice! Can’t thank you all individually but you’ve really helped

I think she wants me to make up the cash shortfall but I can’t

@Idlovetoknow have you actually asked her this?

OP, I have no idea what you want from this thread. I'm not sure even you know.

Unless you change how you deal with her this situation will continue.

without sounding like a gold digger I do have personal interest in the money my dad left as it was left for me.

Call her bluff, get POA sorted , offer to sort it out and take control.

Unless your dad left you money in his will specifically, there is nothing you can do if she has inherited all of his assets.

OP your mum is a shit, abusive parent. Sounds like she's always been this way and this is the latest manifestation. Possibly worse since your dad died.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, you have a lot on your plate.

I think you need to do some reading around toxic parents / narcissistic mothers / fear-obligation-guilt cycles with the aim of finding a way for YOU to feel better.

She's draining you in an unforgivable manner whilst you need support yourself. She's not elderly or sick, she's a working, driving adult who is pulling you down instead of supporting you to thrive.

Be kind to yourself and find ways to minimise her impact

Yes I’m aware there’s actually nothing I can do, for ease, he left everything to her making her promise to share it out.

i can’t just get Poa, she’d need to sign the paper work, and whilst she is incredibly annoying with her learned or feigned helplessness she doesn’t lack capacity.

No and I’m not going to, but I’m pretty sure it’s what she wants because of how she says it, ‘oh don’t worry about me, I’ll survive, I’ll just not put the heating on and get a blanket in winter’ or ‘I’ll cancel the phone, it’s ok no one loves me anyway, you take care of yourself like you’ve always done, don’t worry about me, I’ll survive, I’ll find a way, I’ll struggle through, I’ve been through worse’ etc

can’t just get Poa, she’d need to sign the paper work, and whilst she is incredibly annoying with her learned or feigned helplessness she doesn’t lack capacity.

Exactly. I know you can't.

But if you suggest it and she refuses, which she will, as she has capacity, it makes the point to her.

She is supposed to have capacity at the time of signing the POA. You don't get someone with dementia to sign it, what would be the point of that?

I agree you can call her bluff on it. Push it through as I'm getting this to help out now things are getting harder for you.

She takes out the POA, not you. She has to have capacity and someone has to vouch that she has. This is to avoid exploitation.

I have set up POA for Finances, and for Health (they are separate), with DC as the people I wish to act for me on my behalf, should I ever lose capacity.

I hope it never needs to be activated, but in the event it does, it's already in place. Everyone should have one really, it's not just for old people! Suppose you were in a coma after an accident, for example.

After someone loses capacity they can't set up POA.

I don't see how the estate was settled without probate. I presume your DF left her everything because there is no Inheritance Tax payable on legacies to a spouse, but probate still has to be granted even so. You will have all that to deal with when she dies, I'm afraid.

Have you checked out the Stately Homes thread on Relationships as suggested above? Everyone on there will understand about your family's dynamics.

If you feel frustrated and angry, maybe consider how your posts are frustrating for posters trying to help you.

Oh come on, any of us are free to turn off the computer, disengage and get on with our day. This OP’s life we are talking about!

i think she has you over a barrel op, sad thing is it’s my inheritance likely getting pissed away, money my father made my mum promised she’d give and not piss away for the sake of writing an easy will. Money he worked with stage 4 cancer for - that is emotional for me and why I feel tied.

i am sorry.
but this is it, she knows you have an interest in her finances, but for your own well being you need to disengage.

To an outsider this is laughable! Notice she doesn’t say, I’ll have to sell the sports car, or I’ll not be able to have a holiday this year. She’s focusing on the necessities that even lower income households expect to have. Has she actually been through worse? It sounds that she has spout with material things her whole life!

@Idlovetoknow

"No and I’m not going to, but I’m pretty sure it’s what she wants because of how she says it, ‘oh don’t worry about me, I’ll survive, I’ll just not put the heating on and get a blanket in winter’ or ‘I’ll cancel the phone, it’s ok no one loves me anyway, you take care of yourself like you’ve always done, don’t worry about me, I’ll survive, I’ll find a way, I’ll struggle through, I’ve been through worse’ etc"

She really is disgustingly manipulative. You don't speak to someone you love like that. In fact in all of her behaviour, I see no love for you, harsh as that may sound.

The more I read your updates the more I'm convinced your mother is an absolutely vile person.

Stop offering to 'meet her halfway'

Tell her exactly what you need in order to help and if she doesn't bring "XYZ" next time she comes or doesn't have XYZ to hand next time you visit then you cannot help and won't be able to discuss it. Shut down any mention of it with "once I see XYZ I may be able to advise but until then I can't help"

As an aside how an Earth did you get such a cheap utility rate on such a big property? Even before prices went nuts that is incredibly cheap, are you sure it's correct?

sorry wrong thread

And so is the OP!

But you're right. Im far too invested in this and should definitely not have got bogged down in all the nonsense about taxation and pension details.

Do this.

You've mentioned that it isn't easy for you to visit her so what I would do in your shoes is say the above to your mother and say that if she really wanted my help, rather than being simply a sounding board for her to weep and offload her troubles to, you are more than willing to help out but she has to do the following:
Contact her bank and get the last 6 months of bank statements sent out to her by mail.
Contact any other service providers she may be using (phone/gas/electric/anything) asking the same, the last 6 months of bills/statements to be sent out to her by post. You will do absolutely nothing further for her if she doesn't do this for you. Say that it would be seen as her meeting you half way on her predicament.
If she still fails to do the above, you wash your hands of the whole situation and any subsequent time she even whispers about money, simply say "I've told you want you need to do if you want my help. You haven't done it so you don't want my help. I'd rather talk about something else or else I'm going to leave/hang up as I'm worn out going back over the same stuff time and time again. What is it to be?"

The ball is entirely in her court. Start to play her at her own game.

I'm sorry some of the posters are being deliberately obtuse and unpleasant. I have a mother like yours and it's difficult to describe to outsiders. My situation is around care of a family member and my mother's inability to make a decision.

It's the expectation that you have a magic wand that will sort everything without them having to make any effort whatsoever, including providing the basic information you need to even think about helping. If you do get information it's garbled and frequently inaccurate owing to their skewed interpretation. It's the deliberate refusal to take any responsibility for any decisions that need to be made that pisses me off. It's the sense of entitlement and the failure to follow advice because that could possibly involve having to engage with reality and acknowledge that life isn't as wonderful as you'd like it to be.
Don't have much advice I'm afraid other than solidarity and sympathy.

Forgot to mention the martyrdom!

It sounds like a bit of anxiety and as someone else said - she sees savings dwindling but in reality sounds like she is pretty comfortable. She also sounds like she wants your attention. Older people get anxious about money even when they seem to be perfectly well off with enough to see their years out. But you should double check she is not being swindled by anyone just to be sure!