To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

It strikes me that you don't really like your mother very much OP, (from what you've told us, I can understand why) but if I'm wrong, why haven't you been to visit and find out what is really going on?

Also, I don't think you answered my previous question about how long it is since your DF died, which could be very relevant to the situation. People are giving thought to this situation to try and help you, but why post if you're not bothered enough to go and visit?

That was the thing that rang alarm bells for me when my DM started to display symptoms that turned out to be dementia.

She'd ring me in a panic because she only had £X in the bank, when actually it was £X thousands.

There was also more money in a savings account that she'd forgotten existed.

I did know someone like this and once she was without her spouse it became clear many of the outgoings and demands on the kids were status driven. Wouldn’t pay for a gardener for example, despite more than having the means. Because her SIL should do it. How could she be seen riding (yes riding) the mower. ‘People will think my family are uncaring’. No, just busy. While you swan off to Ascot with your hired chauffeur for the car you won’t get rid of despite the fact that it does at best 10 mpg and you live 10 miles from civilisation.

@Idlovetoknow Taxation

Your mum will pay the lowest rate of tax as her combined income is less than £50K pa.

She will pay 20% on her income above £12570.

The tax on your dad's pension is deducted at source (I know this as my Mum is receiving my dad's occupational pension on top of her own state pension.)

Your mum should be getting a letter annually from your dad's pension provider with the figures - what she will receive monthly and what is deducted at source.

ALL her income - state pension, her own occupational pension, her current income and your dad's pension will be combined and taxed. So whatever comes into her bank account each month is net.

Her tax code will reflect the fact she is still working and receiving the state pension.

I don't want to come over as harsh! BUT you seem a bit passive in all of this.

For example if she says she doesn't have online banking, she will be receiving paper statements. So if she says she can't show you any statements, you need to query this and ask her how she knows what is in her accounts. Because otherwise she is lying.

I don't really believe she is struggling. I do believe she is possibly grieving and this is attention-seeking behaviour, especially as she seems quite ignorant about finances - or is determined to be that way and not learn.

You have two options

either butt out altogether and don't listen to her
or insist you see the bank statements

I doubt it's dementia.

If you read all the OP's posts, she is describing a woman who is feckless with money.

-Lost £1000s as she didn't want to tackle probate for her parents
-Has 'singles' holidays flying 1st class ( was she really 'single'?)
-won't do online banking
-doesn't seem to understand the tax system
-splurges hundreds a month on a lease car yet only drives 3K miles a year
-buys expensive jewellery
-has a 2nd home that is falling apart as she can't be bothered to sell it or get it repaired to sell it

@Idlovetoknow You say she lives a long way away but then you said you see her weekly.

That’s really unkind actually, it’s not a case of not being bothered

my dad died 2 years ago. I have been to visit but it’s actually very difficult due to having a young family, one of which is a baby and a large non baby proofed house. We also only have one car between us as a family so visiting takes planning, she used to have a lot of weekend plans

Long is relative it’s about a 2hr drive, so it’s not one you can say pop by after work or really up and down In one day.

she comes up sometimes every week sometimes every other week and stays for a long weekend

she was a solo traveller but no she wasn’t single in the true sense when she was going on those hols

I honestly think you have to visit her and arrange it when she is complaining to you. There is a while bunch of reasons this could be from one end of the scale where she doesn't have a money problem at all just a misunderstanding to the other end of the scale where she's being scammed, even without knowing.

It's not easy as our parents get older. I was myself close to tears this week when Dad called me confused about a change in his TV (bloody technology!) And he was struggling to undertake the investigations I needed him to do in order to try and diagnose the problem. But we do need to try and keep the safe and independent - isn't that what we would want for ourselves?

Do try and get to the bottom of this with her and then you can perhaps put safeguards in place to stop her from worrying. My Dad for example checks his banking a few times every day triggered in part by his age but also by the fact he came close to being scammed once. I've asked him to speak to me if the balance goes below £1000 or anything going out looks strange and if not then he can close his banking and does not need to worry. This seems to have settled him.

She gave me her tax code as it’s a higher rate one it’s a DO code which I looked up and it says higher rate on all income, trouble is she’s just found out and doesn’t know when it started because she doesn’t look at bills or payslips.

im not sure how I can be more active? I can’t call hmrc for her, I don’t really know the depths or the ins and outs of her income and expenditure. She’s saying I don’t help her enough but I don’t really understand what she’s talking about because she doesn’t use the correct terms for anything and it ends up garbled.

You can easily do a 2 hr drive and back in one day.
I've friends who are your mum's age , who drive for 5-6 hours in a day to see a parent.

Her behaviour when you ask to see her bank statements is just deflecting. She knows exactly what she's doing and you should be firmer.

Or you ignore her behaviour and say you won't discuss it.

2hrs there and back i would easily do in a day (and have done) to visit a relative or friend. For the sake of the peace of mind it will bring you by visiting for a full Saturday/Sunday it's more than worth it.

So is she giving money to your brother?

Going to the property will make 0 difference because I have before and she doesn’t know where anytbing is and then gets in a state and starts screaming.

she did it yesterday when I pressed her on her expenses, said I was pushing her to suicide and to drop it even though she has said to me she was going to have to cancel her phone as she can’t afford it anymore

i don’t believe she’s suicidal I think she’s quite prone to drama, she did this sort of thing growing up to and to her parents

Is she a bit dim?

I know she works, but from what you say she's not exactly on the ball, is she?

I'd leave her to it.

She won't be helped, so it's not your problem.

Either she shows you the paperwork (not her tax code- she needs to query that) or she shuts up about it.

she did it yesterday when I pressed her on her expenses, said I was pushing her to suicide and to drop it even though she has said to me she was going to have to cancel her phone as she can’t afford it anymore

What a ridiculous way to behave.

Look, just walk away from this.
Don't talk about it and if she brings it up, just leave the house.

She will soon get the message. She's just wanting attention.

youd do it with a baby? Who I’d have to take?

She was but I don’t think anymore

youd do it with a baby? Who I’d have to take?

Why do you need to take your baby?

But yes, plenty of mums drive for 2 hrs with a baby. have a break at the other end and drive back.

Do they do it with a breastfed baby when they work on weekends too? I’ve been down, granted not every week but probably 4/5 times in the 2 years, that’s including the 6 months she blanked me because I didn’t give her free financial advise (I’m a project manager at a bank so she heard banks and won’t listen to anything other wise) we’ve got another visit planned for a week to try and sort the other house out, but it’s hard. She also prefers to come here too for a ‘break’

Are you a single parent?

You are making a lot of excuses not to go to the house. You can do a two hour journey in a day. I do it fairly regularly.

Yes. Babies love sleeping in a car in my experience

Because they are breastfed and won’t take a bottle and are hit and miss with solids. Well I’m not doing an up and down journey with a baby (who doesn’t sleep through the night) and when I work weekends too, for me it’s too much.

ive been and stayed the weekend and asked her to get stuff ready or find paper work but she doesn’t, she gets overwhelmed so won’t. No banks are open on the weekend there either

It does sound like your DM doesn't want to be helped . Next time she brings it up simply say sorry as you won't give me access to your finances I can't help .

I didnt want to give great detail on this as it’s not relevant and it’s fucking stressful and deeply personal

My baby wakes sometimes 3 times a night, im fucking shattered as is, and I work and dh has a second job on the weekend evening work which really he needs the car. I work one day on the weekend also for extra cash. We’ve had to do this for CoL. I do not have it in me. Hence why I said before it requires planning. I don’t have it in me for long drives and actually not sure how safe it is, given how tired I am

here And there it’s fine but it’s not great on the regular