To not understand what she’s spending it on

[Idlovetoknow]

It’s my mother. She’s a pensioner and a widow, but she working. She cannot deal with her finances. She’s been on the phone tonight weeping over how much of a dire situation she’s in financially, but I don’t see how.

income from work: £1100 (after tax)
state pension: £800
widows pension: £1600 (think this is after tax too)
private pension: £200/300 (she was wooly on this)
so total income around £3600 a month

No mortgage, no rent, no grounds costs.
council tax £200 a month. Power £150 (let’s say 200 to round up) food and pet food £400, car £450 petrol £100, health insurance £200, phone £50, sky £50, pet insurance £80- that’s £1300 at an absolute max

i don’t understand. She’s not being frauded or taken advantage of, but i don’t understand. I try to talk to her for instance tonight when she rang frantic over money but she gets into such a tizz she can’t tell you anything. I’ve asked for months for all bills and bank statements to go over expenses but she can’t produce them

Anyone any ideas?

Secret Gambling habit?

Was also going to suggest gambling or maybe alcohol problem ?

No she’s always loathed things like that, at an absolute push she’d play the lottery once a week

I'm going to say gambling.. check for online bingo etc or online games you have to pay for add on's extra lives and things

Credit card debt.

She’s raking it in!!!

Is she perhaps one of these who frets if her savings go below £300k or something?

What about debt? Credit cards/loans?

Same with booze, likes a G&T and maybe a glass of wine or 2 out and about but nothing crazy and she’s not the type that would drink alone either

Compulsive shopping?

If she's truly in dire straights and genuinely wants help you'll need to go through her bank statements with her. You'll find the cause then.

What I suspect is happening is she's not broke but she's rich person broke. All money is tied up in savings and inaccessible places but she's cash poor.

Old people tend to be loyal victims customers of the "Gas Board", AA, Saga etc
A lot of money can be blown that way.

Charity donations? Subscriptions she's inadvertently taken out? Fraud? Unless you see her bank transactions you simply won't know.

That’s the only thing I can think, my father only retired 2 years before his death, mortgage paid many years before that, and when he retired his pension was over 3k a month and then her wages alone meant they had a minimum of 4200/4500 coming in and very little expenditure. Is she freaking out about it being lower?

she was awful awful awful with money. She’d go on 4/5 hols a year (alone) when he was alive and fly first class sometimes but no debt, just paid for it from their salary

Is she really struggling or is she sending a load of cash to savings then saying her current account is low?

Gently sit down with her with a pre written list of all the likely outgoings. Then supportively gather all the bills and statements in the house and go through it forensically. Don't shame her or overwhelm her. I did something similar and it's such a relief all round now.

Likely this, remember being a v v skint student where skint equalled £5 left of my overdraft, flatmate was hysterical and thought was skint if £100 off of going into overdraft!

Does she have an automatic direct debit into a different bank account that's been going for years and she hasn't realised? Like money transferring into a savings account?

Does she have money still being paid to companies who's services she no longer needs? I once paid an electricity bill for over a year to a property I had sold, because I had a baby and wasn't checking my direct debits properly.

You need to see the statements. Most banks don't send paper statements anymore unless requested so you'll need to go round to your mum and ring the bank and request them.

She’s definitely got some investments but she’s got instant access to several 10ks too

How bizarre, let us know when you find out.

I do think you'll be underestimating costs there, particularly if she's used to spending money quite freely. But still, living off £3600 a month shouldn't have you crying with worry.

Maybe get statements from the bank and any credit card provider when you are physically with her.

She may not know how to do it.

@Idlovetoknow have you seen any evidence she's absolutely skint?

I feel a bit Mumsnet stereotype here but extreme random anxiety about things like finances can be a symptom of dementia. Is this something she's become fixated about? Is there any other strange things she's doing that may spark concern if you link them together?

Can you help her sign into online banking, or go yo her bank and ask for copies of her statements?

Can't help with the totals but if you do get to the bottom of any extra outgoings (ie debt/secretive spending) - the bills you've already seen do seem quite high for (presumably) a single adult at home? I suppose may depend on the house size.

Hopefully there isn't a worrying surprise lurking - but if there is debt there hopefully should be a decent margin to reduce outgoings (phone, utilities etc) based on your OP.

Well first class flights aren't cheap so that could be it.

To be blowing through that income she's buying the very expensive version of something. And it sounds like more than simply not shopping around for her home insurance.

You need to see all her statements to see where. Without those, it's all speculation.