I voted for Brexit ‘I voted for Brexit and was told it wouldn’t affect expats – now I can’t live in my £13,000 Italian house’

[OhNoOhNo]

Struggling to work up any sympathy…

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/brexit-voted-wouldnt-affect-expats-cant-live-italian-house-2508493?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=paulchown%2Fmagazine%2FBrexit+Reality+

Agree

I can't reassure you. I don't know that entering at the time of huge economic uncertainty due to COVID, Truss etc.. and an incompetent government will mean we can pull brexit off in any helpful way. I think we could have otherwise, or I wouldn't have voted for it. Anyway, despite the limits of its implementation and all the economic uncertainty and tanked economy from COVID, I remain hopeful that over the next few years, and particularly longer term, we will get to see some advantages, particularly socially. (I do also think some form of freer movement with Europe will be restored. It's in everyone's interest)

What do you mean Agree?

Your hypothetical woman felt like that in 2016. What would she think now? Her vote didn't work. Voting Leave didn't solve her problems. In fact it made things worse. Her community and country is poorer. There is increased pressure on housing, healthcare and education. And her children no longer have FoM.

What would you say to her?

You are still not acknowledging that Brexit caused this incompetent Govt.. May, Johnson, Truss and now Sunak.... none of these people would have been in power were it not for Brexit... which also caused stagnation in the UK for several years too.. it ate up Parliamentary time.

One reason i didn't vote to leave was because all the Leave camp could promise was wish lists and you re doing it now with "hopeful that over the next few years, and particularly longer term, we will get to see some advantages, particularly socially. (I do also think some form of freer movement with Europe will be restored. It's in everyone's interest)"

You ve not a clue whether any of this will happen... & who exactly do you think will implement FOM ? and more importantly.. why would the EU agree to this? its primarily a UK benefit.

Really struggling to find your logic to Leave... seems that IN the EU fore filled much of what you actually want.

Would you tell her vote didn't matter. It meant nothing, she should now suck it up and approach it as a learning experience to teach her children diversity and tolerance @HaveToHideAsAnon?

https://twitter.com/implausibleblog/status/1687008059195904000?s=20

Left: Rees-Mogg and Farage said we would get cheaper food after Brexit

Right: FT reports that we have delayed Brexit rules on food, again, because applying Brexit will make our food more expensive

@HaveToHideAsAnon
I think I've grasped your reason for voting Leave now. It was to close the door to FoM to/from the EU and open an inward only door to RoW immigration.
You know, I can't knock that, you actually did get what you wanted. Personally, I don't think the cost,
Spanner in NI peace
Removing FoM opportunities from our young people (although your own children may well have EU passports)
Shrinking our economy from 90% the size of German's to 70%
Move poverty for UK
Potential loss of environmental protections, H&S, workers rights, food standards etc
Making a bunch of racists very happy (EDL, Britain First, Farage etc)

I don't think having more inward immigration from outside Europe is worth all that. If you do, well, I agree, I might not share your values (plus being in the EU didn't prevent us opening that door) but you got what you wanted.

As In stated in my post, the person I described is experiencing significant social inequality. I would suggest we try and work together as a society to address these huge socio economic differences, rather than spend time insulting each other.

Brexit didn't cause the conservatives. The conservatives caused brexit.

Cameron was in power when he gave the vote to the people, and before and since then, they have entirely messed up the running of the country.

@HaveToHideAsAnon So you obviously think that May, Johnson, Truss (and her budget) plus Sunak... all would have been in power had the vote been to Remain?

Or would Cameron have, like Major before him, told the ERG to politely go away & almost certainly remained as PM

Brexit wrecked Governance in this country, has caused huge polarisation that simply did not exist before hand and as you have been quite honest about, achieved next to nothing.

Brexit has been a lesson in self destruction, which is perhaps why, no other EU country has proposed a vote and support for the EU has grown in the EU since 2016, even parties that wanted to leave have changed their pov.

(1) Spanner in NI peace.
Well, the EU violated the Northern Ireland Protocol (unlike the UK which talked about doing it) with its preparations for the vaccine border.

Fortunately, peace in NI has held.
(2) Shrinking our economy from 90% the size of German's to 70% ???
I remember the claim. I remember it being laughed as well by serious economists. Most people just quote the dodgy projected 4% loss over a long period of time.
(3) Move poverty for UK. (Reliable) source for this please.
(4) Potential loss of environmental protections, H&S, workers rights, food standards etc. We've had Brexit for a few years now. Have the rights been eroded ? Any changes (to tighten or loosen things) would be made on the basis on UK elections.
(5) Making a bunch of racists very happy (EDL, Britain First, Farage etc). You'll find many on the left were also very happy with the result, eg Corbyn.

(6) Removing FoM for young people.
As someone who spent his life using FoM, this is a loss. However, Brits didn't much exploit FoM compared with other EU countries. Also, I don't see much sympathy in the Remain community for the problems that those of us who did exploit FoM have had since the referendum.

Increased immigration from outside the EU wasn't my reason for leaving. I haven't stated my reasons for leaving.

However, increased immigration from outside Europe is what I perceive to have been one benefit from Brexit.

One powerful reason that almost stopped me voting leave was the issue of FOM with Europe. It was my sticking point, but i had lots of reasons to leave and I did think that although FOM would pause for quite sometime, at least this pause came with the benefit and natural consequence of increased immigration from outside Europe and all the positive social changes that may bring over time, so I was prepared to go with that. I do hope FOM with Europe will at some stage be restored. I hope it will.

Well, we can agree to disagree.

I firmly believe the conservatives bought about brexit, not the other way around. It was a conservative prime minister that introduced the referendum. It was members of the conservative party who campaigned for brexit. Borris, Truss and Sunak are all conservatives. They have been in the party a while. They are popular with conservative voters.

The conservatives started brexit and they are making a complete hash up of implementing it. None of that is brexit's fault. It's the fault of those that proposed and now have no idea how to implement it.

Brexit has been implemented, its been done 100%... out of FOM, SM, CU, ECJ, all EU trade deals, Frontex, Horizon, Europol... we aren't in any of it.

Thats Brexit.

We have a tariff free trade agreement with the EU.

Sorry if i ve misunderstood you but Brexit has been implemented, you'll have to explain further to avoid mis communication.

Your belief that Boris et al would have become PM's if Brexit had never happened isn't a widely held one, even among their own supporters.

Do agree that Cameron/Osbourne were awful too, Austerity has proven to be at the root cause of many of the UKs problems, Brexit included.

Thanks that made me laugh. Ive seen countless other retired couples in the press moaning about this. I'm baffled that they didn't see it coming.

There were a few Brits living in the EU who also didn't see it coming.

Partly this was because they supported Brexit and chose not to see the problems.
Others were fed lies and believed them. A favourite lie doing the rounds, also repeated and spread by Johnson, was that the Vienna Convention would protect those who had exercised FoM should Brexit happen. I was surprised at how many people bought this argument.

Do agree that Cameron/Osbourne were awful too, Austerity has proven to be at the root cause of many of the UKs problems...

Well we agree on that :)

By 'implementing it', I mean you can't just say that's it. We've left we're done. Leaving is the 'easy' part. Implementing leave is the hard part and what determines its success or not. And as the economy and country is in a right state after COVID and Truss, we aren't starting from a great place I'll give you that.

Implementing means, over the next 10 years we need to start negotiating, forging new links, setting out new pathways, striking new deals, getting better connected on the world stage and finding ways to re-connect and repair relations with Europe which bring life, in a different (maybe even better) way, back to our partnerships and collaborations in research and other areas. Implementation is lengthy, and hard, and requires a strong, committed, unified, forward thinking government that can restore the markets faith in Britain, and the people's faith in Brexit. Sadly we don't have that at present, but ever the optimist...

Ultimately, we need the politicians to believe in brexit. You can't win the Olympics if you don't believe you can. What's even the point in trying. You can't make a successful Brexit if you don't think you can. It's defeatest and dooms us to failure. We need a government that believes and makes it happen.

With change comes opportunity. We need to see those areas which are not working and make them work for us. Admittedly, being out of Europe is a huge huge shift. A massive change and there has been real economic and personal consequences for people. But we can not only recover, but forge something very very good at the end of it if we try. If we make sure we connect more globally with partners. If we see ourself as a more global player. If we take the lead on new partnerships, rather than just sit morning the loss of old ones.

Anyway.. that's my view :)

Why do you assume I would insult her? My SiL voted Leave at the time, but regrets it. I don't insult her. We talk about Brexit regularly, but rarely mention her vote.

If she'd decided to be a dick about it and demanded that everyone be super nice to her or she'd do similar again,🤯 it would be different.

You are mixing up implementing Brexit with rebuilding the UK following the damage of Brexit.

I see it as implementing brexit, you see it as rebuilding. I guess it doesn't matter what you call it, as long as we r all focussed on making it work and building a more prosperous, inclusive Britain that contributes to global growth and prosperity

… I wish I had your confidence that the same people who voted leave and implemented the Brexit and the economic decline we have now are capable of making it work and building a more inclusive, prosperous economy!

i look forward to the improvement- when will it arrive ?

@HaveToHideAsAnon, I know that it is fashionable nowadays for people to misuse words, but it is confusing and wrong.

Implementing Brexit is a specific thing. You can't just say it means whatever you want. Using the correct language is important to communication.

By 'implementing it', I mean you can't just say that's it.

Er, you can. And both Labour and the Tories have effectively done so.

By all means, lap up the warm words, and bathe in the soundbites. But then do the think that most people seem unable to do, and look at the fucking reality.

If you're not happy with your Brexit, then you know exactly who to take it back to, and how to do it.