I voted for Brexit ‘I voted for Brexit and was told it wouldn’t affect expats – now I can’t live in my £13,000 Italian house’

[OhNoOhNo]

Struggling to work up any sympathy…

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/brexit-voted-wouldnt-affect-expats-cant-live-italian-house-2508493?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=paulchown%2Fmagazine%2FBrexit+Reality+

The EU doesn't like the arrangement Switzerland has, it's far too complicated. It will never allow another such deal with the UK.

There will be, when you are open to hearing them brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Goodnight to you too..

Hilarious. The secret vault of Brexit benefits that only the mysterious supposed Mensa member knows. 🤣🤣

🤣🤣

But it's just because it wasn't done properly!

If the silly politicians had only had access to @HaveToHideAsAnon 's top secret "oven ready deal" setting out what the real Brexit should have been like then we'd all have our classified unicorns by now.

I am not ignorant, racist or stupid for doing som I voted brexit for many reasons and thats ok

Such as?

Just to be clear that was what ChatGPT dreamed up.

Hilarious! So even trawling the entire internet for information it couldn't come up with one substantive, logical reason. Just vague prejudices and that some people had a fundamental lack of understanding of international relations and law. Which does somewhat beg the question as to why they felt they should cast a vote on such matters.

Whether you voted brexit or remain, we r all united in wanting better jobs, communities and living conditions for us and our families. We all want improved access to education. We all want better healthcare. Let's focus on what unites us. Not on insulting and putting down each other.

Why would anybody who wanted those things have voted for Brexit when it was apparent to anybody with half a braincell (let alone supposed Mensa members) that Brexit would have the exact opposite effect of this?

I think this is quite wise of Starmer.
Leave voters are never going to change their minds regardless of how much damage Brexit does. They were weighted towards the older end of society though so we just have to wait until enough of them have died off before the damage can be addressed.
And please don't twist this to mean I'm wishing people dead.

It's happened already. There is consistent majority support for SM and CU membership. Even the slightly more mentally challenged have mostly now cottoned on to the fact that Brexit was a dumb idea. The only folks still supporting it are ancient bigots and racists, and the super wealthy who instigated it to protect their tax haven money. And they no longer outnumber sensible people plus the rather slow ones who were duped in 2016 but have mostly now found a squishy organ inside their skulls which is capable of consciousness.

However, if you genuinely want to know, because you want things to change, you want to make things better for the future, then I'd be happy to take part in a focus group, complete an anonymous questionnaire etc ...

Ok. You're on an anonymous online forum where you can change your username.

So: here's the anonymous questionnaire:

1. What were your rational reasons for voting for Brexit?

What I do know, from years of study, work with addictions and work in behaviour change, is that we cannot force people to change by insulting them and telling them they are wrong.

Nobody gives a shit if you change.

But yes, you should feel ashamed. I'm glad you do. You will have to live with what you did forever and nobody is going to forgive you. The anger with you - and pathetic people like you who cannot admit when you've fucked up even when that has had dire consequences for everyone else - is not going to go away in time: it will grow and grow. And you absolutely deserve it.

You only have to look at the politicians and media that were promoting Brexit, to see it wasn't about most people. Farage had been paying his foreign wife out of tax payers expenses, and was caught hiding money in tax havens. Then as soon as people voted to leave, he resigned to leave Britain out the EU with Tories in power, as he only wanted to make sure the British economy stays closely liked with USA banks, encouraging people live in greed and debt, so he can sell his get rich quick schemes based on stock market gambling.
Also most of the media promoting Brexit either has USA owners or support Britain having an economy closely linked with USA banks, encouraging people live in greed and debt, so the economy crashes every few years, which will be used as excuses to make anybody suffer not any use at being a slave to the upper classes, bankers and Tory donors who live in tax havens. Also as an excuse to keep pensions the worst in North and west Europe.

Also so Britain stays a USA lapdog, ready for when the bankers who run the USA and Britain use the Ukraine situation to start WWIII.

I voted remain and am against Brexit but the vitriol towards leave voters on here is awful.
We live in a democracy and referendums are part of that.

And so? Just because someone votes for something doesn't make it- or them - worthy of respect.

The whole ‘perhaps if you were a bit nicer to me I might change my mind’ line fascinates me. You don’t hear it in connection with other debates.

Do people really base their views on which camp they perceive to be nicer? If you truly believe in Brexit and have put thought into it, why would how I respond to your opinion change it? If the honest answer is that you aren’t going to change your mind, why keep repeating this line? Is it reasonable to compel respect for opinions? How is it possible to respect an opinion intellectually when you genuinely think it has no merit? Do the people who demand respect ever consider why that view is being attacked on the grounds of reason and and not a difference in values as is usually the case for controversial topics?

I know a lot of people would say the reason we keep coming back to this is that it’s a distraction technique, but I think there is real hurt among many leavers that their views aren’t respected as intellectually worthy. It’s an interesting phenomenon.

@Grumposaurus - you certainly live up to your name 😂posting throughout the night a lot of anger. Are you in the UK or the EU (one of the hot countries - heat can make you narky 😉)

Ok I have a question. What benefits would joining the EU give to me an Englishwoman living in England - working class, bit of savings but not loads. I live in the East Mids and have two grown up kids (both doing very well wages wise). I work and have lots of overtime at the moment (hence building my savings). If we were to join tomorrow (yes I know this is hypothetical) and I could wake up knowing we were back in the EU, what differences could I expect to see and also benefit me, the average Josephine?

I am listening. I am a floating voter.

A slight re writing of history there!

May said NO to CU and SM, a hard Brexit was baked in, she governed not for the UK but to keep her party together.
The Tories had a majority with the DUP, there was no "Golden Opportunity"

Then Bojo came along and purged the Tory party of more moderate Tories, both PMs had cabinets of Brexitiers, being anti EU was the main qualification to be in Govt, still is, perhaps more so with Sunak.

KInnock Boles wanted EFTA membership and the vote was pretty much split down party lines but it was never going to happen, even if voted through, a pro Brexit was never going to negotiate a pro EU agreement.

Several Parliaments? so thats 20 years plus.....

Tell me. Did you careful consider the consequences for the peace in NI? Maybe you did, but just didn't give a shit, that seems a common position.

Also, still waiting for you to tell me how exactly I can make the most of Brexit as you advised people to do.

Yes, we live in a democracy so people are free to vote how they choose. I absolutely respect that right, and believe that it should be defended.

However, respecting the fact that people have the right to make choices doesn't mean that I have to respect the actual choices that they make as if they were all equally valid and reasonable.

In a healthy democracy, I should absolutely be able to express my opinion that people have made a shit choice. There is nothing democratic about pretending that we're not angry or disgusted by the decisions that our fellow citizens have made... quite the contrary, in fact. Stifling debate would be antidemocratic.

Democracy does not mean that we have to respect all views. It merely means that people have the right to hold views that we may be unable to respect.

I know a lot of people would say the reason we keep coming back to this is that it’s a distraction technique, but I think there is real hurt among many leavers that their views aren’t respected as intellectually worthy. It’s an interesting phenomenon.

The crux of the problem is that the justifications for Brexit - bearing in mind it removed rights and opportunities - were all predicated as being positive without a shred of evidence. And as we can now see - thus far into the process - not s single poster purporting to have voted leave has ever identified any metric by which success can be judged.

That would have been OK if before the vote, Leavers admitted they weren't voting (for example) to boost GDP. However they haven't. And clearly won't. And that doesn't compute with the assurances we were given before the vote they they were voting for (say) increased prosperity.

It's a circle you can't square.

Compare that on the remain side where most people had - and still have - quantifiable and quantifiable reasons for that stance. And you have a side of the debate that seems more tended towards facts and figures. And hence totally and utterly unconvinced by any leaver hyperbole.

I can only speak for myself. But with such a situation, it starts to look like a lot of leavers - or to be more exact all the ones that post here - are not being completely honest with us (and maybe themselves). We know this because a lot of the supposed measurable yardsticks of success have slowly evaporated until in any discussion if you leave it long enough, as each justification is slowly shown to have not happened (where's that £350 million a week for the NHS ??????) we eventually settle on some variant of "sovereignty".

For all the leavers in that camp as far as I am concerned their views are as worthy of respect as a flat earther.

I know a couple of leavers whose arguments were very specific and based on clear metrics. Maybe rather niche, but then as we have been reminded ad nauseum here, everyone is entitled to their opinion. The thing is there are now most definitely not leavers, very regretful, and admit they didn't realise the vote wasn't about the EU. Which is wasn't. And returning back to why should we respect leavers views, it's because they swallowed the notion that Brexit wasn't about a bunch of crooks who had mapped out a way to make money by kicking the UKs prosperity tree so hard that the fruit fell out and was taken from future generations.

And it doesn't stop there. As each argument proceeds down it's predictable path, it's clear that some leavers were happy to be duped as a fig leaf to views that - as one poster has realised - are unacceptable in todays world.

I'm not sure a view that all immigrants should be sent home (except the nice ones) is necessarily that worthy of respect. By all means, you are free to have that view. And express it. Please do. However when you have held it and expressed it, and find that people don't like you, don't try and undermine their right to hold whatever view they like.

To return to the quote that started this typaton:

I know a lot of people would say the reason we keep coming back to this is that it’s a distraction technique, but I think there is real hurt among many leavers that their views aren’t respected as intellectually worthy. It’s an interesting phenomenon.

How about the interesting phenomenon that the millisecond after the vote, and every millisecond since, not a single person who professes to have voted leave has shown any respect for the views of the remain side. Beyond "We won, get over it" ? In 5 years of threads on this forum on this topic, not a single leaver has said "Sorry your kids can't travel Europe now". Not one.

All Brexit has done on the long run is show the world how little money your really need to capture a country, if you have the right friends in the right places. And with the oncoming Tory fossil fuel fest, how easy it is to nudge single issues into becoming election deciders. Which is the death kneel for any pretence we may have had at democracy, And frankly we weren't that great to start with.

Surely - I hope this isn't too unkind - that depends on what the vote is for ? Especially on a single issue.

I would take a dim view of someone who voted (for example) to send all people whose names can't be pronounced "back home". Call me a snowflake.

Obviously that's a rather hyperbolic example. But then telling me that all votes deserve equal respect is too. But even then, I might just respect someone who voted for the because they are dyslexic and had a justifiable reason for it. Less so for someone who claimed their vote was about saving doctors receptionists time.

But I digress ....

Imagine I misread "worthy" as "not worthy" because I've not finished my coffee

Amazing post @SerendipityJane

Ok I have a question. What benefits would joining the EU give to me an Englishwoman living in England - working class, bit of savings but not loads. I live in the East Mids and have two grown up kids (both doing very well wages wise). I work and have lots of overtime at the moment (hence building my savings). If we were to join tomorrow (yes I know this is hypothetical) and I could wake up knowing we were back in the EU, what differences could I expect to see and also benefit me, the average Josephine?

We'd be in Horizon, boosting the UK's scientific sector and hence economy, in EU criminal databases, making streets safer, be able to return failed economic migrants, attract highly qualified medical staff, inc carers nurses dentists (few EU come here now because of hi visa costs, restricted stays and paper work (they can work in 27 countries v easily)
We would be subject to ever increasing checks when travelling to EU, you & your children could work in EU or even retire there & be able to take your pet there without needing a expensive pet "passport" for each trip.

We'd be able to trade frictionless with 27 other countries, again boosting trade/gdp.

Doubtless you'll now say "None of that applies/benefits to me"

Rewriting of history ? Pls provide the evidence that I've done this rather than you misreading my comment.

With frictionless trade, we’d be able to export more. Our economy would be stronger as a result. Freedom of movement would mean a lot of the employment gaps we have would be filled, so more carers, NHS staff, builders, even baristas. All paying tax.

A stronger economy means more money for public services, your council may even have cash to repair the potholes on your road.

Everything boils down to the economy, the stronger the economy, the better everything is for all.

Also even the reputation of the country would improve, increasing tourism, bringing more money in. Foreigners (and many Brits) do not want to visit or spend money in areas perceived as hostile unwelcoming.