I voted for Brexit ‘I voted for Brexit and was told it wouldn’t affect expats – now I can’t live in my £13,000 Italian house’

[OhNoOhNo]

Struggling to work up any sympathy…

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/brexit-voted-wouldnt-affect-expats-cant-live-italian-house-2508493?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=paulchown%2Fmagazine%2FBrexit+Reality+

EU nationals wouldn’t need to get passports to holiday here, EU school children could return ( using ID cards) to the English language schools in volume.

look at how many English schools have closed in Canterbury.

The indicative votes were performed in order to try and see what support there was for a path forward. If one vote had demonstrated clear support, then it would have moved to a main vote and would have presumably passed. None of them did

Presumption's again... a binding vote may have been subject to a 3 line whip, with the ERG insisting rejection.... and how on earth was a Brexit Govt going to negotiate a EFTA style agreement?

May's government was not a "hard Brexit government". She supported remain I believe in the vote and tried to come up with a range of options for MPs that both preserved the result of the vote (to leave) while acknowledging that a significant proportion of people voted remain - ie a softer Brexit best reflected a reasonable compromise of the nations wishes under the circumstances

May said repeatedly, the UK wouldn't remain in the SM nor accept the obligations of Norway, her final deal was very similar to Boris Johnsons Oven Ready one.
It doesn't matter what May wanted, she was fairly low key in the ref campaign and was preoccupied with party management as PM.

@HaveToHideAsAnon

Lets face facts here, if your dream is to retire to an EU country but you then vote to remove your right to do so, then "Thick-as fuck" is probably a fair reflection on you.

Getting rid of FOM was a vital plank of the Leave campaign and Remain highlighted exactly what that would mean, it wasn't in the small print.

100% this.

I've yet to see someone who voted for Brexit demonstrate one single measly benefit of it.

And no, I won't get over it. I'm still furious about it and shall remain so.

Actually, I'll caveat by saying I don't feel sympathy for the people who were misled in the sense that politicians lie, fact. But I get that the leave campaign was outrageous in its lies, and remain baffled that they have in no way been held to account for even the most egregious of them.

And also, it's funny how Italy is able to set these requirements despite being...a member of the EU. It's almost as if the whole 'sovereignty and controlling our own borders' argument was a complete fallacy....

It's very early days! It has also been implemented at the worst possible time when COVID tanked the economy, the government was unstable, and Truss threw away billions and scared the financial markets. We also continue to have a completely incompetent government at the helm,l.

I have hope that there will be some positives over the next 10 to 20 years. One benefit we are already seeing is that there has been an increase in immigrants from non European countries. Something very welcome from my perspective and within the NHS. We are also beginning to see signs of the economic impact of not being part of the EU CAP.

I know it's hard now, of course it is. It's a v unstable time when we are trying to implement a massive change in the fall out of COVID and a tanked economy. I'd like to give it some time. We have no choice but to do so anyway.

(BTW, I voted leave, but would not have done so if I knew COVID was coming. A global crisis and economy in huge trouble is a terrible time to implement brexit. However, I don't regret my vote because it was the right thing to do at the time without the benefit of hindsight. I would vote the same again now because it would be even worse for the country to try and go back, we wouldn't be allowed to anyway and another vote would hugely undermine democracy. Would I vote leave again in 10 or 20 yrs time. That depends on what happens over the next 10 to 20 yrs)

@HaveToHideAsAnon At last!!!!

As i ve said, Brexit gave us Bojo and then Truss, no brexit & these people wouldn't have become PMs.

On the CAP, you might want to ask the NFU what they think Brexit has done to the farming sector..

Why is it a good thing that many more people from poorer countries are coming here?
Healthcare staff from these countries are needed in their own countries, India has a huge shortage of HCPs as it transitions its economy, UK is taking HCP from Nepal, one of the poorest countries in the world and against UN rules...

Plus these people will stay in the UK so rightly expect to bring in families, further strain on public services.

Bojo didn't have to implement Brexit, he was warned not too as Covid approached, the EU offered a longer transition period, he refused.

Why would another vote undermine Democracy? Do you think we shouldn't have a GE in 2024 because it would undermine the result of the 2019?

Early days? Only if you are from the JRM 50 years school of thinking

But you r thinking very short term. As people come from other countries so too will there children. British children will then learn more tolerance and acceptance of other people and other cultures, they will learn about issues and difficulties in other countries and can they feel more inclined to work to support those other countries as they grow up to adults.

The young generation will be exposed to attitudes, beliefs and cultural differences which our parents generation and our generation have not. They will be less British centric and more open to understanding Britain as part of a global village. They will be less protective if this small.island, and they will be more understanding and more willing to go out in the world themselves to work towards a more globally centred world.

I also feel that if trade increases with countries outside the EU, this will again support a world in which their is more communication and understanding between nations.

We can't stand still as a little European island, with closed doors and a closed attitude towards the bigger world.out there. I know this opinion is in the minority, but thinking in the very long term, I can only see the movement of people on a more global scale as a good thing for positive societal and global change.

Brexiteers do have a very limited idea about democracy. You vote once and then can't vote again?

Good to know you hold out a sliver of hope we might see something positive in twenty years time. Really makes it feel worthwhile.

Brexit has limited my democracy. The Assembly collapsed because of it and that's fucked loads of things up.

mmmmm food for thought!

However, past experience is that communities don't tend to mix and tbh the white English young people i know are out working worldwide as they always did, i'm not a fan of the belief English youth are somehow lazy and need to be shown how to work...

Again another presumption, there is no evidence the UKs trade will increase significantly with the RoW, other countries inc the EU are also after this trade!! we aren't the only ones.

Brexit, as far as i can see, was exactly what you say you don't want, closing the door to Europe, island nation, inward looking.

The UK had a huge voice in the EU, very influential, our defence forces, science and our net contribution saw to that, now, the EU will evolve without us... the EU is in the top 3 of world science and technology blocs, it will form and grow existing relationships with China/Asia & the USA... the pity is, as you say, the UK IS a small island nation and will have very little to offer on its own.

We could mitigate that by joining Horizon and other EU science projects but not looking like Sunak is interested.

I didn't in anyway mean English youth are lazy or work shy. Apologies if that's how it sounded. I was just saying that I hope that the more children from countries outside Europe share classrooms, clubs, activities, with 'white British" kids, the more tolerant and understanding of other cultures and issues outside Europe, our children will become. They are our future, and the more globally aware and driven to support, understand and communicate with those outside this island, as adults, the better.

And yes, the change to free movement with Europe was one of the main reasons I almost didn't vote brexit. But when push came to shove, I felt global movement and future possibilities this brings to our planet and it's people, outweighed that negative and I hope in time, as things pan out and settle, there will again be free movement across Europe. It's good for both the Brits and the Europeans, so I don't think the current position will remain on that on.

I agree, mixing with other cultures is brilliant and the nearest steps are often the easiest!
Hence why i wanted to see FOM stay.

The UK of course always had the freedom to allow in other non EU nationals as it wished.

Where we disagree is that FOM will not return in any form for the foreseeable future, there is of course, FOM across Europe, we the UK just aren't in it and you voted for that..... i just don't get your reasoning here.

We still have close ties to Europe. We are still neighbours and I do feel there is a possibility for us to remain outside Europe but strike up a future deal to see the return of FOM between Europe and UK. It benefits everybody. Let's see how the next 10 to 20 years pan out, and in the meantime I think it's positive that we are seeing greater immigration from outside the EU, as this can only be a good thing for the future of our children and society globally.

yes. Because the brexit lot didn’t gloat at all when they won.

So 2 generations of young people will miss out on FOM and cultural/work opportunities its brings?

Thats one bugbear i had with Gisela Stuart came here easily, studies, worked, fell in love, built a family here and then set about making sure no one else could do similar, same with Portillo, Braverman.

There is nothing positive about what is driving this immigration you so love.... poverty, war, famine, persecution and in may cases, they die before reaching Europe and in the UKs case, thrown on an over crowed boat or sent to a far off land.

Twenty years! My kids will be in their thirties, their opportunities for living and working in Europe limited until then. Waiting to see how it goes and maybe in twenty years it will be slightly better is very cold comfort. Twenty years is a very long time. And the vast majority of people who voted Brexit will be dead by then, never having seen a single benefit of the whole thing.

Can you tell us any of the reasons you did vote for Brexit @HaveToHideAsAnon?

Unfortunately not everyone sees immigration as a great asset to social and economic growth. What about those who see it as a threat to them, their community, there family and their jobs and consequently their ability to put food on the table for their children?

They feel unheard and ignored. They voted because they opposed more immigration and they are not happy. There is much anti immigrant sentiment in the country right now and its getting worse.

Unfortunately French children will see less of the British culture. They now need a passport to come to the UK on a school trip. Very few French people and even fewer children have a French passport. They have an identity card that will allow them on school trips all over Europe…except the UK

Do your children have EU passports by chance?
I can't believe someone with such a positive view of cultural exchange would deliberately and completely freely take away opportunities for their own children to live, study, work and travel across 31 countries. All the way from the Arctic to islands off the African coast, taken away from our young people. You might willing take that away from other people's children, but surely not your own?

Oh, and you still haven't said -
a) how exactly do I 'make the most of brexit?'
b) when you were carefully considering all aspects of brexit, did the peace in NI play any part in your decision?

Just joining. Me and my family have hugely suffered as a result of Brexit.

Kindly share your views @HaveToHideAsAnon

I am in desperate need to be reassured that Brexit was worth it.