I voted for Brexit ‘I voted for Brexit and was told it wouldn’t affect expats – now I can’t live in my £13,000 Italian house’

[OhNoOhNo]

Struggling to work up any sympathy…

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/brexit-voted-wouldnt-affect-expats-cant-live-italian-house-2508493?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=paulchown%2Fmagazine%2FBrexit+Reality+

As I said. You are not listening to yourself. Read your posts back. No one else's, just yours. And apply your knowledge of psychology.

I don't need their votes. It's done now.

Please yourself. I'm not responsible for your interpretation of what I said.

Sorry missed the last bit

Yes it's true - I'm not a politician. I studied A level politics. I was actively involved in local.politics around the time of the 97 election and for the next 5 or 10 years. But since then other things have taken over my time. These days I read the papers, occasionally read manifesto's, pledges, the propaganda that arrives through my door. I read the papers and watch the news. I might occasionally read an academic paper or an opinion piece on something political that I find interesting. But I've no high level political knowledge. I probably know less than you about politics. It's not my area of expertise. I'm guessing it's not many people's area of expertise Though for sure, some voters will be incredibly politically active and knowledgeable. Great!

You r right!! I have not a lot of common sense :) I am reading Mumsnet when I should be going to bed for example! I guess I'm human :)

Not sure what you want me to say really! ;)

I didn’t say you had no common sense - you did! Perhaps that’s where some of the incongruity lies between your real and ideal self 😉

Sure you do, unless you think today's hard Brexit represents a desirable state for the UK.

Rejoining may or may not be a pipedream. I don't know (and nor do you). However, there are many options for the UK-EU relationship that fall short of full membership that may bring back some of the benefits of membership. To deal with this question means that many on both sides need to stop behaving like toddlers who can't get everything they want.

This is the complicated battle in the real world outside of shouty internet echo chambers.

For what purpose? I'm a bit confused! (though it is late and I'm v tired!!) I'm happy with who I am. My id is perfectly in check thanks (well, sometimes it's not - I did eat a few too many snacks earlier today!!! .. but largely it is!!) I love the person centred approach and taking an empathic and non judgemental stance. I wrote a paper on it! I'm not sure what you are getting at really?

I know I said I have no common sense!! I don't!! I was agreeing with you :)!

Which newspapers do you read, out of interest?

How patronising.

I don't think any way forward in terms of the UK and its relationship with the EU is within the power or influence of individual voters now.

The guardian, the times, the telegraph, the mail, the express, the independent, the NY times (accidentally it seems) and whatever else takes my fancy on the day :) You?

I’m not at all surprised to see the Mail and the express in there with their sensationalism about being taken over by immigrants and such like 🤣

Patronising ? Maybe, but one of the lesser rhetorical sins compared to a lot of the stuff seen in this thread.

Accurate ? Yes.

You clearly understand very little about the UK-EU relationship if you think individual voters have no impact. We have the relationship we have (encoded in the Withdrawal Agreement and the Trade and Cooperation Agreement) because enough individual voters chose the Tories in 2019. They were clear wrt the direction they were taking.

Voters are needed for any party that goes into an election supporting closer ties. An example of closer cooperation includes the UK joining the Customs Union. FoM or FoM with restrictions, as in EFTA, is also possible. Immigration is at a record high level. Removing FoM did, as expected, little in this regard and it's now empirically clear.

None of us can see the future. Some can't see the present and some seem to be stuck in June 2016, shouting at Brexit voters.

And how would you know that if you'd not read it too! It's fun sometimes to read the tabloids!

I do read it sometimes, for a laugh at the fact it’s such a biased rag that blatantly twists the truth to suit itself.

I wonder what other papers you read? Maybe we r not to different in our reading habits :)

Realistically we should aim for a closer relationship with the EU rather than rejoin.

Fix the mistakes Brexit voters caused but not become full members so we can honour their choice.

A similar relationship to Switzerland would be great IMHO. Single market access, Schengen membership, no customs union, no Euro currency. Probably exactly the right compromise to make most voters of either colour happy.

To be honest, I do read a variety, but I’m vert sceptical about some more than others. I try to be unbiased and objective where I can. Which is way I made sure to look thoroughly at the benefits vs consequences of leaving the EU.

I honestly can’t fathom a sensible argument for leaving? I mean look, shit in rivers, woo!! Import taxes which get passed to the consumers, more immigrants with different skin colours, loss of freedom of movement, No trade deals, and if we manage to negotiate a deal with the US or Australia for example, they aren’t bound by the same standards and it contributes to climate change having to fly goods from that distance. Britain has no industry and relies on imports to survive. It’s gone swimmingly.

Hindsight being the best teacher of all, we messed up here.

Post-referendum the emphasis was on stopping Brexit so the Remain MPs discarded options that fell short of full membership. We had a golden opportunity when the government had no HoC majority to steer a compromise path. Stephen Kinnock's Common Market 2 could potentially have worked. It would have restored FoM and Single Market access albeit with a few safety valves.

We are also big enough to negotiate a gradually upgraded deal that is more bespoke for us but which falls short of full membership though this takes focus, time (likely covering several Parliaments), patience and concessions.

But impossible with the current hardline government. If we can clear out the loonies and find a less unhinged set of ministers we might get to drop dogma and embrace pragmatism…

Try reading what I said.

I wasn't talking about 2019. I said now.

Except that so far there's little sign of any major party moving towards that. I'm hoping that Labour does soften its stance if they're elected.

I did read what you wrote.

There is a General Election next year at the latest. That is 'now' in political terms.

This is very much in the power of individual voters.

I'm sure the Brexit voters will be reflecting on the stuff written them about over the past few years and will decide that yes they are a bunch of morons, it's time to move back towards the EU. Or maybe not.

I personally don't think the EU is likely to be a major focal point of the next election campaign.

Well to be fair to Mr Greg Walton at least he had the decency to at least admit he voted for Brexit.

Very few of the 17 million voters that voted for Brexit will now openly admit it.