I voted for Brexit ‘I voted for Brexit and was told it wouldn’t affect expats – now I can’t live in my £13,000 Italian house’

[OhNoOhNo]

Struggling to work up any sympathy…

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/brexit-voted-wouldnt-affect-expats-cant-live-italian-house-2508493?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=paulchown%2Fmagazine%2FBrexit+Reality+

You've missed the point about how someone votes being none of our business. It's up to them to reveal as little or as much as they want.

No, I agree with that. Just don't post about if you don't want to discuss it. Unless you want to goad

But drawing conclusions from someone not sharing the reason for their vote and being frustrated by that - which is what I see on this thread - is not the same as seriously proposing that voter privacy should be removed, BritinEU. That is a clear threat to democracy, of course. Someone asking you to back up your argument on the internet and you refusing as is your absolute right, isn’t.

Discussing it doesn't imply that full disclosure of how they were thinking when they voted and how they view things now.
Not being required to account for yourself to a bunch of strangers on the internet is a good feature of a democracy.
It's not like the bulk of those strangers are open-minded or in any way sympathetic to the person in question.

Far better to push constructively towards an attempt to rejoin. Far easier to shout in internet echo chambers about how awful Brexiters are.

Suum cuique pulchrum est.

Is this you admitting you hadn’t considered the full implications of your vote? Yet you are happy with your vote and would vote the same way again? Sounds like it to me.

You and many others assume this is a one sided equation. Why do you assume the EU wants the UK back inside the tent. Also have you seen the price to be paid?
You can’t walk away from a club you have criticised for many years and think there is a welcome mat awaiting you.

Some common sense about rejoining, at last

My point had nothing to do with secret votes.

Or they could just realise that the question of EU membership is far to complex for the average voter to grasp and go with what the vast (90%+) majority of experts in this think.
Or they could think they know better.

I said what I feel. I don't have to take advice from you.

It's an interesting point.

There's a strong argument that if the EU is to survive it needs greater political/fiscal integration. Whether that cause is best served when it has significant (and the UK would always be a significant member due to its population/economic size) members sitting sniping from the sidelines and preventing progress.

I think also the fact that the EU needs further integration made the long term viability of Camerons agreement pretty low. The EU needs further integration, and I believe that not only would the idea that the UK "would never be part of a European superstate" work strongly against the EU, I doubt that it would have lasted as a proposal for very long.

We won't talk about the minor detail that Cameron or any other PM doesn't have the ability to bind parliament in perpetuity, or the fact that leavers might have felt a lack of willingness to trust the promise given the lack of consultation on other previous large treaty changes like Maarstricht and Lisbon.

You and many others assume this is a one sided equation. Why do you assume the EU wants the UK back inside the tent.
You can’t walk away from a club you have criticized for many years and think there is a welcome mat awaiting you.
If the UK wants to show the EU that it really wants to rejoin
The ring leaders of the Brexit campaign should be held to account. They should be tried in court for Treason.

Ok, you won't tell anyone your reasons for voting Leave or why you would do so again (apart from people were mean and called you thick).
You said up thread though that people should make the most of Brexit and I asked you how should I do that. Perhaps you could answer on that and tell me how exactly I make the most of Brexit as you advised I should?

I don't assume that at all, in fact quite the opposite.

Maybe there are some arguments that the UK could rejoin the EEA but certainly I don't believe the EU.

We would have to make too many concessions for it to be politically acceptable to the UK - for example joining the EZ.

I don't think it is in either the UKs or the EUs interest. The EU needs nations fully committed to the cause and if the UK is not part of that solution it is part of the problem.

I'm inclined to agree with that. I don't hold out any hope that there will be any form of rejoining in my lifetime.

That's why I feel as I do about Cameron whose cowardice caused this, Johnson and Farage who lied through their teeth and leave voters who voted as they did. I'll feel as I do about them all until the day I die.

@HaveToHideAsAnon you complain about not being listened to. You are not listening to yourself.

You came onto this thread and immediately announce a gap between your Real Self and your Ideal Self. Person centred therapy calls it Incongruence, Psychodynamic calls it Neurosis. Such a split is never good.

You have used "thick, ignorant and racist" to describe yourself more than anyone else has.

Your demand that everyone be nice to you or you'll do it again are pure Id, the demands of a child. Not an adult. As is the incongruent, hyperbolic language you use. Statements such as "Yes its all my fault, only my fault" and "Are you god?" Instead of taking any responsibility. You double down instead of admitting that you were manipulated and made a mistake.

Yes, it is very uncomfortable to look at yourself, see where you've been stupid and see the consequences. But sometimes we fuck up. When that happens the best thing to do is accept responsibility and apologise, hard as that is.

Announcing how easy it is to manipulate you on the internet is never a good move.

Read your posts back and listen to yourself.

Hey what? Did I miss something? How did you arrive at that conclusion?

@HaveToHideAsAnon

This,

If every single voter read every research paper, every economic discourse, every policy document and weighed up all the socio economic consequences of their actions before they voted, would that be preferable to you? Is that realistic?Would that actually reflect the diverse make up of the society we live in? No. We are complex, we don't always do things logically and perfectly. But it doesn't matter. We have a right to vote and we have a right to vote however we like, for whatever reasons we like, and that is a right we need to hold.on to.

Plus you saying politics is not your forte and also that you lack common sense on previous posts on the thread.

You give the impression you made a snap decision, or a decision based on emotion instead of logic.

Mmm..not sure how read that into me! I didn't announce any gap between my real and ideal self. I stated that I voted brexit and its a shame I can't admit that to people in real life because people don't seem to have a very high opinion of brexit voters and make all sorts of (often very untrue) assumptions. I would like to live in a world where I could share my opinions freely, both online and in real life, in such a way that people would not resort to insulting me or making assumptions about me. I am neither neurotic nor incongruent (though if I was, that's ok). I am happy with myself and who I am. I am not happy with how some people make judgements and put others down, or may distance themselves from someone who they thinks differently to them on the brexit issue. But as far as congruence goes, I'm happy with my self!

Person centred therapy seeks to take an empathic, non judgemental stance towards others. It seeks to show genuine positive regard for others. I like that approach and I think it's a sensible one which can further collaboration, discourse and even change minds.

Oh I see. Sorry to have given that impression. My decision in the GE was somewhat of a snap one! Still not sure why the lib dem switch (though probably because thats who I'd previously voted for, and maybe it just felt safe. But who knows!) My brexit vote was pretty well thought about.

Look how that turned out 😳

Nobody said you had to take advice.

If shouting in internet echo chambers about how awful those people are whose votes you need is your thing, knock yourself out.

Your behaviour has everything to do with how well we respect (or don't respect) the principles behind the secret vote.