I voted for Brexit ‘I voted for Brexit and was told it wouldn’t affect expats – now I can’t live in my £13,000 Italian house’

[OhNoOhNo]

Struggling to work up any sympathy…

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/brexit-voted-wouldnt-affect-expats-cant-live-italian-house-2508493?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=paulchown%2Fmagazine%2FBrexit+Reality+

Oh yes it is!!!

It is

....and you re not going to change my mind on that, no matter how many paywall links you post

It is.
You need to register and even then you only get limited free articles to read.

Ok, sorry!!! I didn't know I had paid for the ny times!! I'd find another one, but noone seems that interested :) shame, it was a really good article ! :)

Sorry, I didn't realise about the paywall. It's a good article too :(!

Surely you don't believe though that one persons rights should trump anothers ?

For example ones persons right to continue to benefit economically doesn't trump someone elses right to self determination ?

Ultimately in a democracy we all get one vote and get to vote for whoever or whatever we want within the choices that are presented to us.

A lot of people seem to have the opinion, you didn't choose to vote in a way that benefits or continues to benefit me, irrespective of what your personal motivations are, so wah, I'm going to throw my toys out of the pram.

The worse thing is that I think people are starting to believe this sort of behaviour is increasingly acceptable, that rather than democracy being about the art of engagement and persuasion it should be about abuse and intimidation.

People have a right to vote how they want within the constraints that are offered them, and to place different priorities and value judgements on the reasons why they vote. Value is subjective not objective. You can't judge someones interpretation of value to be worthless and their behaviour to be stupid just because it doesn't fit in with your expectations of personal enrichment.

All of those you’ve mentioned have caused this. Yes, including you and all the other leave voters.

Casting a vote is not the same as having an opinion. It has a direct effect. It is something you did, not confined to the theoretical. If you understand psychology as you say, you’ll understand why people are still upset about your vote. You’ll also understand why it’s pretty rich to expect them to accept the idea that it’s them who needs to appease you. We’ve had this ‘If only you’d been nicer to me, I might have been voted differently or changed my mind’ from leavers since the referendum and it comes across as abdicating responsibility as much now as it did then.

Stop blaming others. As a poster upthread said, there was always the option not to vote at all. I respect those who didn’t vote as they didn’t feel sufficiently informed or were turned off by the debate. But to vote and then blame everyone but yourself for the consequences of your vote is not worthy of respect.

I am sure Anon has very persuasive arguments to change your mind, she just won't mention them....

Oh yes, the art of engagement and persuasion - I know why Brexit is great but I won't tell you!

Honestly, Leavers go round the houses so much to avoid ever having to say why Brexit is a good thing. Why IS that?

No I don’t, what I object to is voting based on a pack of lies that they clearly didn’t think though and that the fate of the whole country has been decided on the basis of such a narrow majority.

Referendums usually have to have a larger majority. What’s worse is that unlike elections, we can’t even right the wrong.

thank you

For a psychologist you sure moved to a subjective viewpoint pretty quickly.

Lies. Sure, you can convince yourself one side was more righteous if you want to. That's more in the domain of religion though than objective analysis.

But the lies were obvious as the promises haven’t happened 🤣 it’s not been the utopia the leave campaign promised has it?

I actually don't have to tell you anything. No one owes you an explanation.

That's not how democracy works. You get to make the choice. You can rationalise it any way you want. Self interest. The interest of the collective. Short term. Long term.

But you don't have to fill out an explanation on the dotted line. Maybe people will choose to tell you voluntarily if you engage properly with them.

I'm not blaming everyone for the consequences of my vote at all. I voted and am happy with the way I voted.

People just keep telling me I'm stupid, have messed up the country and can't believe I haven't changed my mind and realised how stupid I was to vote brexit in the firs place. So I was just pointing out that if they want me to change my mind, they won't succeed in that by insulting me and telling me I'm a thick, ignorant, uneducated racist who should never have been allowed to vote in the first place.

I'm happy not to change my mind and for people to just accept I voted differently from them. But people aren't satisfied with that.

Gaspanic is another poster equating the right to a vote with the right for that vote and the reasons behind it to be beyond criticism.

Sorry, but not all opinions are equally worthy.

A family friend gave their reason for voting leave as them putting their trust in the British people. Where to start with that? It’s meaningless. Yes, their vote counts as much as anyone else, but I’m entitled to think and say that their reasoning is utterly facile.

As for threats and abuse… this is ridiculous, not to mention an insult to those who really are intimidated and harmed for holding certain views. Leavers have been insulted on forums like this. Some will have fallen out with friends. But that’s the height of it Someone criticising your vote, even in the most insulting manner, is not a threat. For people who prevailed in the vote, leavers are a curiously fragile and persecuted group.

But the people that pulled this stunt - and got away with it - have set a clear precedent for doing it again. And again.

There is a reason that referenda are constitutionally banned in some countries. If for no other reason than they make the whole idea of government a waste of time. As seen in the UK where a waste of time became the government.

And are you god? What gives you the right to decide who's views and opinions are more worthy?

Me too. But I am furious for the young people who have had so many life chances taken away from them. My DC had the chance to study in Europe. They have dual citizenship and have several languages, so I don't really have an axe to grind, but it makes me much more aware of how unfair it is for the young people who don't have that privilege. I am really angry about it.
I am a second generation immigrant and DH is a first generation immigrant and I just think the leave voters were driven by racism and xenophobia. Well, they will just have to put up with immigrants from outside Europe, won't they.

You haven’t given us any of your views or reasoning, though. If your reasoning is illogical then of course people will challenge you, it’s allowed. I haven’t heard one logical reason for Brexit from anyone since the vote. In fact, a friend said she voted on the basis of vacuum cleaners.

She didn’t, she voted for it because she’s a raging xenophobe who thinks Nigel Farage and Donald Trump are fantastic human beings. Needless to say, we’re no longer friends.

No, they really won't tell me however I engage. If there was anything good about Brexit, Leavers would be posting it all over Mumsnet. There is nothing they can say, and so they'd really like us all to shut up and stop reminding them how shit Brexit is.

It doesn't matter what my reasons are. They are MY reasons for choosing to vote how I wanted. I never ask why people who voted conservative/lib dem/labour etc.. unless I know they wouldn't mind me asking. If they want to tell me they will. I don't push and probe. I certainly don't deride and insult.

My reasons for choosing to vote for something or someone are equally as valid as anyone else's

Generally on matters of self determination, that is decided historically by referendum.

There has been plenty of referendums on EU membership, including Greenlands exit of 82 and Norways refusal to join in 94.

If you’re so confident your reasons are justified then why wouldn’t you tell people? I mean, they’re perfectly reasonable after all.

There’s no reason people would judge if they’re so normal and well reasoned, right? What’s the point being on this thread otherwise?

If people ask me why I vote the way I do, I tell them 😂