I voted for Brexit ‘I voted for Brexit and was told it wouldn’t affect expats – now I can’t live in my £13,000 Italian house’

[OhNoOhNo]

Struggling to work up any sympathy…

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/brexit-voted-wouldnt-affect-expats-cant-live-italian-house-2508493?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=paulchown%2Fmagazine%2FBrexit+Reality+

My uncle is like this. Lives in New Zealand, and describes Māori as “immigrants” 🤯

DBro got into an argument with him about this, and pointed out DU was an immigrant himself. “No I’m not”, snapped Uncle. We literally remember him emigrating...it wasn’t even that long ago, maybe 25 years? He was in his late 40s, it’s not like he moved over there as a child. I’m not even totally sure he’s a NZ citizen.

Stupidity at its most obvious

wow

I think one very big difference is that lots of Leave lies were about provable facts, like the EU being run by unseen, unelected bureaucrats and we had no say being just rule takers. And a gullible public absolutely lapped them up. I don't think the Remain side told any completely demonstrable untruths like that? The rest were about predictions for the future , for the future, you can promise anything you like. Who knows, the EU might have bent over backwards to give us anything we wanted (as might the rest of the world) to the severe detriment of their own citizens. They might have given UK citizens the freedom of movement they had as EU members while meekly accepting the same didn't apply for their own citizens in the UK. Magical technological solutions might have suddenly materialised to smooth the border in Ireland, ones that hadn't existed anywhere in the world before.

Personally, I think you would have to be an absolute fool to believe the above. And I think the recession predicted by Remain was actually as strong possibility. Was it an actual lie or just an incorrect prediction? Who predicted it? Was it most respected financial institutions and economists or just know nothing, lying politicians?

@BritinEU The BoE has today cut interest rates from 0.5% to 0.25% - the first time in seven years. The MPC has also decided to restart quantitative easing (QE), by adding £60 billion to the currently held £375 billion stock of assets – the first addition to the programme in four years

also, the UK didn't quit the EU immediately, we took another 3 1/2 years plus a "transition" period... this and the BOE actions, softened the blow considerably.... but that does not take away from the subject of the OP, anyone who did even a modicum of research should have quickly realised that travel and relocation plans would change if we left the EU and stayed out of SM and CU.

I've no idea if you are a remainer or not but it seems very strange to focus on the remain campaign and ignore the awful lies told by Johnson etc & that Leave led to some terrible Govt we have had (and have) in the UK because of this decision.

I simply remarked that both sides lied and that we empirically ran with Project Fear, as admitted by the boss of the campaign (and the advertising company boss btw).

Not surprisingly, we like to focus on Brexiters' lies. Nothing new to discuss there. However, we prefer to ignore our own lies and some get offended when they're pointed out.

I'm well aware of the post-referendum economic history. It doesn't alter the fact that we made exaggerated claims (eg Brexit recession) and that we ran "Project Fear".

As for me being a Brexiter/Remainer, I can't think of anything less important to the substance of this discussion. Those on both sides need to stop being so tribal.

My Dad has a 2nd home in France & he was bemused (& irritated) by the number of British 2nd home owners who voted for Brexit.
What the f**k did they think would happen???
The Brits that had moved there full-time years ago had already applied for résidence so were ok.
The retired Brits that flitted between the two countries as & when they pleased are not ok...
All the Brexit-voting Brits are all selling now however it's more that they're too old to keep 2nd home in another country going rather than limitations of short term visas.

My Dad & all my elderly relatives (71-93 yrs at time of referendum) voted Remain as they remembered how membership of the EEC helped the UK in the 70s.
I have some younger cousins who voted leave much to family disgust...

This is all getting a bit squirrel-ey.

Pointing out that the predicted remain recession never happened like it’s some sort of gotcha is like arguing that once the Titanic went below the water line it didn’t sink straight to the ocean floor, it went down slowly and at an angle.

So what. We’re now slowly boiling frogs instead of instantly microwaved ones.

We can see all the trajectory we’re on. Once the result came in, the £ instantly lost I lot of value- how much was wiped off at that moment? And in 2016 our economy was worth 90% of Germany, now it’s 70%.

I can't think of anything less important to the substance of this discussion

For me, banging on repeatedly about the same point over and over again does very little to the substance of this discussion either. People are worried about the here and now, the reality of what this country faces and the future. Not what was said by the losing side nearly 8 years ago.

@BritinEU Project Fear was a Leave slogan to bat away any genuine (or otherwise) issues with leaving the EU.... and as said, it really doesn't matter now.

The UK is out, will stay out and the main campaigners for Leave have or will quit politics... to make their fortunes elsewhere, the rest of us just have to put up with it.

No main party is proposing SM or CU membership, much less any indication we will re-join the EU.

The Wealthy will never be restricted by Brexit, so people like Sunak or Starmer simply no longer care.

It's entirely their fault. They didn't do their research. Had they secured residency before the end of the transition period, they'd not have this problem. And they're not trying to be expats, they're trying to be British immigrants to Italy.

I have a shitty day today OP. Thanks for this. I needed a good laugh.

Carlo M. Cipolla (15 August 1922 – 5 September 2000) was an Italian
economic historian. He was a member of both the American Academy of Arts
and Sciences and the American Philosophical Society

These are Cipolla's five fundamental laws of stupidity:

° Always and inevitably, everyone underestimates the number of stupid
individuals in circulation.

° The probability that a certain person (will) be stupid is
independent of any other characteristic of that person.

° A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or
to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly
incurring losses.

° Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid
individuals. In particular, non-stupid people constantly forget that at
all times and places, and under any circumstances, to deal and/or
associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.

° A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.

Corollary: a stupid person is more dangerous than a pillager.

As is evident from the third law, Cipolla identifies two factors to
consider when exploring human behavior:

° Benefits and losses that individuals cause to themselves.
° Benefits and losses that individuals cause to others.

Cipolla further refines his definition of "bandits" and "naïve people"
by noting that members of these groups can either add to or detract from
the general welfare, depending on the relative gains (or losses) that
they cause themselves and society. A bandit may enrich himself more or
less than he impoverishes society, and a naïve person may enrich society
more or less than he impoverishes himself and/or allows himself to be
impoverished."

I voted for Brexit. If they held another vote now, I'd vote Brexit again.

I find it therapeutic to admit that on Mumsnet

...because there is literally no-one (except DH, who has thankfully forgiven me!) that I could ever admit that to in real life. No-one. People would never understand. A lot would judge. To meet me absolutely no-one would ever guess I had or would vote Brexit and I actually think a few friends would distance themselves. Which is sad :( I'm still the same me!

It's a decision that has made a lot of people's lives worse. It's taken rights and opportunities from us. It's made our country poorer (and a very small number of wealthy people even richer). It doesn't matter that you're the same person; your choice has had a very real detrimental impact on the rest of us. I would find it hard to feel the same about a friend who had done that and would do it again when the impacts of it are becoming clearer all the time - and no benefits have or ever will materialise.

IMO, Brexit is not the cause of the cost of living crisis or many other problems facing people today. COVID, the shit-show of the conservative party, Liz Truss's accidental loss of billions, incompetent policy makers, and a government against brexit that is trying to implement it half heartedly and almost intentionally badly, are the reasons for your hardship.

Though I understand you are unlikely to agree.

And this is sadly why I remain a closet brexiteer. I'm sure there must be others of us out there! But I haven't met a single person that has admitted voting brexit! I really am the same me. And I'm not a bad human. I just have a different political opinion and I believe that should be ok between friends.

I love the NHS. If a friend ever voted to privatise it, I wouldn't all out over it! I'm also not a big conservative fan, but again, I understand we r all different and wouldn't lose a friend if they voted for them.

Well can you at least share the benfits of Brexit?

Being the same you doesn't matter though. Its not much consolation to someone stuck for twelve hours at Dover is it? And that's one of the minor consequences of Brexit - the paperwork, the queues, the way it makes things harder. If one of your friends has had to watch their business tank now exports to the EU have been fucked and had their livelihood ruined, would you expect them to be able to feel the same about a person who voted for that to happen? Brexit has made all our lives worse, in small and big ways. It hasn't made anything better. Of course you would lose friends by saying not only did you contribute to this but you'd do it again. It was a decision that had consequences that all of us have to live with.

TBH Several of those things you mention are as a direct result of Brexit, if we'd voted to remain... no May, no Bojo, no Liz Truss, No Lord Frost, Farage would be gone... no 3 years of wasted (and on going) government... chances are Cameron would still be PM and the UK would at least of had a level of stability through some very troubled times.

Everything else.... Covid, Ukraine & cost of living.... the rest of Europe has faced, yet have not had the same issues the UK has.

So lets be straight here, your vote made matters worse.

Yes, Brexit made the Conservatives the shit show they are - anyone vaguely sane got hounded out of the party and only being a Brexiteer counted which was why we had such a painfully inadequate, inexperienced, venal, hopeless Cabinet during Covid. Brexit hobbled our recovery; a useless, pointless drag on our economy to hold us back.

No one on here could offer up one single tangible way that Brexit would improve any of our lives back during the referendum and years later they still can't. The best you can do is try to blame everything that's gone wrong on some other cause. But we all know it's Brexit.

° A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or
to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly
incurring losses.

Nobody who loved the NHS would have voted Brexit.
Some of the best pharmaceutical research companies have relocated back to Europe. We have lost so much EU funding that research is not happening. Cochrane reviews are no more.
That is without even considering the medical and nursing staff who have left.

*A stupid person is one who calls another stupid, without knowing anything about them.
*A stupid person is one who believes themselves superior to others or to hold views which are better than others.
*A stupid person believes that stupid people exist, rather than appreciating the diversity of humanity.

I voted brexit and I love the NHS and have worked in and for the NHS for over 20years.

Brexit has been incredibly poorly executed and managed. That is not the fault of brexit. It is the fault of those implementing it.

Possibly but i think you ignore the complexities of extracting the UK from a partnership of 40 plus years, in which the UK helped form many of the EU's trade and co operation regs etc.

If we were to leave, it should have been a 10 or 15 year project.

As it is, Brexit, as done, has wrecked the NHS.

I ran clinical trials in the NHS for years. Those EU companies and the team work and funding were invaluable.