Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

[SusanandMidge]

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

I agree completely.

Round these parts, if a developer builds a certain number of houses on a new estate (let’s say for example 500) they have to make a certain % social housing. Result, right! Except it’s not - they just build 495. It infuriates me and I’m amazed people fall for buying these overpriced plastic tat houses.

Exactly what I was going to say @Lifeinlists .
I am god forbid in my late 50s as are many of my friends. Can honestly say I don’t know anyone amongst my very large social group who voted Brexit…so don’t tar everyone with the same brush thanks!

But people also need to be able to differentiate between needs and wants. I still remember the widespread outrage on here when people were asked not to travel abroad on holidays during the early days of Covid. The fact that it was to try and save lives when dealing with a new infection of which medical and scientific experts had little knowledge and where every precaution had to be taken, didn't matter to some of these people. They announced they had 'done their own risk assessment' and were going anyway.
It really highlighted for me how spoilt many people have become. Being asked to forego a foreign holiday for one year is not a huge deprivation. But for some it was akin to a denial of their human rights.

I’m very smug though my house is 350 years old and solid as a rock, the staircase is definitely a hobbit staircase but the rooms are built to swing a cat in

UK society is rigged against young people when we ought to be investing in them. Older people have already made their way. More for pensions than education is mad. This generational conflict has long been predicted, and young people are right to be angry. There are lots and lots of cheap shots at them about coffee, holidays, and luxury when all the things that would allow them to get wealth as their parents did or grandparents have been dismantled such as public housing, free university, employment that is permanent and unionized so they are not exploited etc.

Yes if I were 20 and getting patronized by someone in their 60s on this stuff who had all of these things I would be rude too.

I am a middle aged btw.

In recent times it is young people who refuse to join unions and who often look askance at anyone who has stayed in the same job for many years, seeing them as unambitious and boring.

Wasn't that thread about why other people kept bandying about that silly idea?
I'm 50/50 on this.
There is ageism both ways. But two wrongs don't make a right.

Comments like @WeetabixTowels 's for example.
Whom 'you know' is irrelevant, maybe you only know naice people whose parents are happy to hand them deposits on a plate. Etc.

Anecdotes are irrelevant look at the numbers - a single full-time wage isn't enough to buy a home in most parts of the country when a single earner with a family of 4 previously could.

I don't 'blame' the older generation - especially as 'old' in people's minds covers everything from 90+ year olds who went to war and 60+ year olds who are of working age.

But, the Boomers have managed to disproportionately influence policy due to being the largest demographic in post-war history. They also benefitted from being born in a shall we say more prosperous age. Boomers also hold the majority of the countries' wealth.

There shouldn't be any sweeping statements, but any rational discussion about how things used to be easier is ALWAYS met with 'in my day we had no takeaways and netflix blah2'.

Strangely enough in our house DH's grandparents are more clued in and sympathetic. His parents think we're profligate spenders. But then again their world is rather small and provincial, they don't know how much we earn anyway... :)

You see you blame them! Immediately! No wonder...

Exactly!
As another example DH's father even went so far as to fudge his income (Self employed) so that DH would get the maximum loan.
He got to go to uni for free, then dropped out! What a waste

And I am definitely not disputing the fact that the housing market is crazy and that it is not right that many parents are forced to put their children in creches whether they want to or not, in order to put a roof over their heads. But that is not the fault of all older people. It is down to successive policies which are anti family and which prioritise wealthy investors and developers at the expense of ordinary citizens.

Also to add I did say anecdotes but then contradictyed myself my providing some :)

In any case there should be a distinction. if we WANT people to downsize we shouldn't be throwing people out of their homes but less stamp duty for downsizers etc etc.

We are not a dictatorship...!

Because we are all told that i we must be ambitious.
Tbf staying in the same job or decades just doesn't work for many now. We don't want obe underpaid staff while new ones get extra. That's not "you can be anything, aim for stars! We worked hard for you to have better life"

Why not just encourage her to throw herself in her husband’s grave. Why waste a good puddle.

I’m in my sixties and sometimes wonder if I should stop being a burden on all these random young people. I’m currently self supporting except for one cheap medicine on prescription but sometimes feel reading on here as if I’m personally responsible for a whole generation’s troubles. I did vote Remain though.

I do also think the Boomer vs Millenium/Gen Z War is a drummed up distraction to get us all to blame each other when ALL our fingers should be firmly pointed at those in political power.

Hear hear.

But that's the point I am trying to make. It is not elderly people who created this unethical work environment, so why blame them for having had permanent pensionable jobs and decent working conditions?

Some truth in that.
I love how priny takes jibes at us all at certain times. "millenials killing planet with their plant hobby!"
"boomers rich with housing and not letting go"
I think X is being somewhat spared atm

public housing, free university, employment that is permanent and unionized so they are not exploited etc.

And yet on a recent thread about striking people were horrified by the idea that if your union votes for strike action it means that all members of that union should indeed go on strike. Those of us who were around in the 80s arguing the case for collective action were referred to as being out of touch and living in the past. Unions can’t prevent exploitation of those at risk of exploitation won’t join union action.

Bah. This has all been voted for. All those good things the war generation gave have gone.

People took the money. And perhaps that is okay but stop patronizing young people and moaning about age. You have lived and lived well. What else do you want? Respect? I think that one is earned whatever your age.

I think sometimes on here, ageism is not taken seriously because it is constantly shouted about for inconsequential things.
Like a poster saying anything that implies that being old or looking old is not desirable. Which it isn't- our society doesn't glamourise the 75+ years, nor do any 75+ year old people I've met.
Actual ageism is undoubtably a horrible and dehumanising thing to experience and it seems on here that is somewhat undermined by people claiming 'disgusting ageism' when a woman in her 40s says that she didn't like her new shoes as they looked a bit 'grannyish' or her.

More for pensions than education - yes - should pensioners starve? I work in education - and YES absolutely more money is needed - I opposed (marched and everything) fee's for uni (paid them myself even though I am old and now support 2 kids going to uni!), Public housing needs to be built (Thatchers Gov started the sell off and non of the profit went back into rebuilding), I joined a union at 15 while still in school (T+G) - anyone can, and should, join a union and encourage others to do so - then you have a union in your work place. Bosses won't set them up for you.

The issues is - don't vote for people who put profit first - I didn't - lots of us 'old' people didn't - lots of younger people just don't vote!

Well 'blame' is really subjective. What do people actually mean?
That certain sections, as a class, have voted for people that have put in unpopular policies?
That certain people don't understand how lucky they are to have had X, Y, and Z?
That certain people love wielding divisive prejudices?

What do you mean 'moaning about age'?

My point is people took and did not preserve. That's why there is anger. Then to tell them how they should do after it is gone. Teeth grinding.

YES! well said