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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

450 replies

SusanandMidge · 27/07/2023 14:19

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

OP posts:
wutheringkites · 30/07/2023 17:13

That's what we do too, along with many others in my generation. It's a massive generalisation to think we all buy on credit.

See how this cuts both ways? @Oliesjola

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:29

Wahwahwahwahwah · 30/07/2023 14:56

if I put my house on the market tomorrow I wouldn't be able to afford to buy it

See this is an example of how older people have wealth they didn't actually "earn"

Not having a go at you @Wiccan just sick of all the PP suggesting the reason they managed to buy their nice houses was because they were frugal and hard working. Chances are at today's prices they would have had the exact same problems as today's younger people (as you just showed here)

Well it bloody well looks like you are ! We paid 70 grand for our house the 300 grand it's now worth is 20 years of increased value and is piss all to do with anyone's age . 70 grand at 7% was a huge amount when my wage was only £600 take home a month I don't control the market . I decided when I bought my house it would be the only mortgage and house I'd have because I didn't want to be in debt all my life .

Cheesusisgrate · 30/07/2023 18:33

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:29

Well it bloody well looks like you are ! We paid 70 grand for our house the 300 grand it's now worth is 20 years of increased value and is piss all to do with anyone's age . 70 grand at 7% was a huge amount when my wage was only £600 take home a month I don't control the market . I decided when I bought my house it would be the only mortgage and house I'd have because I didn't want to be in debt all my life .

There is no way anyone can get mortgage like that nowadays. 70k on 600 a month. I mean equivalent loan x salary

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:40

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:29

Well it bloody well looks like you are ! We paid 70 grand for our house the 300 grand it's now worth is 20 years of increased value and is piss all to do with anyone's age . 70 grand at 7% was a huge amount when my wage was only £600 take home a month I don't control the market . I decided when I bought my house it would be the only mortgage and house I'd have because I didn't want to be in debt all my life .

And yes I was frugal and hard working and I still am . It was fucking hard, scares the shit out of us to think how close we came to losing it on a number of occasions. My home is all I have, I had no other loaning I didn't even learn to drive because I couldn't afford it and I put every penny I earned into my mortgage . Yeah I'm so fucking well off!

LadyGrinningSoul85 · 30/07/2023 18:44

Cheesusisgrate · 30/07/2023 18:33

There is no way anyone can get mortgage like that nowadays. 70k on 600 a month. I mean equivalent loan x salary

Agree but dont point that out to them, they get very defensive over any sort off insinuation that it was just sheer good luck that houses were buyable without half the obstacles that people have now.

They just worked far harder than all of us, remember? 🙄

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:44

Cheesusisgrate · 30/07/2023 18:33

There is no way anyone can get mortgage like that nowadays. 70k on 600 a month. I mean equivalent loan x salary

I didn't get it alone it was joint with my husband . I would never have got any mortgage on my own .

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:46

LadyGrinningSoul85 · 30/07/2023 18:44

Agree but dont point that out to them, they get very defensive over any sort off insinuation that it was just sheer good luck that houses were buyable without half the obstacles that people have now.

They just worked far harder than all of us, remember? 🙄

I don't care what generation it is everyone has and is trying to get buy this fucking thread is just hateful !

Blossomtoes · 30/07/2023 18:49

LadyGrinningSoul85 · 30/07/2023 18:44

Agree but dont point that out to them, they get very defensive over any sort off insinuation that it was just sheer good luck that houses were buyable without half the obstacles that people have now.

They just worked far harder than all of us, remember? 🙄

We didn’t work harder and it was sheer good luck. But let’s not pretend that good luck was restricted to old people. Anyone who bought before 2008 had that luck too - and that includes Gen X and older millennials.

Cheesusisgrate · 30/07/2023 18:52

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:44

I didn't get it alone it was joint with my husband . I would never have got any mortgage on my own .

So it wasn't really 70k on 600 salary as your post kind of suggested...
Yeah you didn't have it easy but the way you are putting stuff forward here is just bit performative "poor me, don't tell me what hard is"

Coyoacan · 30/07/2023 18:59

Agree but dont point that out to them, they get very defensive over any sort off insinuation that it was just sheer good luck that houses were buyable without half the obstacles that people have now.

They just worked far harder than all of us, remember?

I don't quite understand why any one generation is getting blamed for the current problems of buying houses? Surely there are more systemic reasons for said problems.

People are talking about the generations as if there were no class system and everyone of a certain age has the same standard of living.

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 18:59

Hubby earned £200 more than me he paid all the other bills i put everything I had into the mortgage . We were around 300 short every month .

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 19:51

Cheesusisgrate · 30/07/2023 18:52

So it wasn't really 70k on 600 salary as your post kind of suggested...
Yeah you didn't have it easy but the way you are putting stuff forward here is just bit performative "poor me, don't tell me what hard is"

I have nothing but my home I will never see any money from it because I will be dead . I have no fucking savings left because I had to pay for a funeral for my mum . Even if I wanted to down size everything around here is so expensive a 2 bed new build that would be suitable is 80 grand more than my house is worth I wont get another mortgage because I don't earn enough . So I'm very interested to know what you fucking suggest !

Cheesusisgrate · 30/07/2023 19:56

Not aure what suggestion you want since I wasn't telling you to move...

MereDintofPandiculation · 30/07/2023 20:08

Oliesjola · 29/07/2023 22:32

So if people hop over to the thread about’ how many savings do people have ‘ many people definitely have a lot more‘savings’ than my generation 🤷‍♀️We used deckchairs and fold up tables for furniture when we bought our first home.

The older generation who have savings now didn’t necessarily have savings when they were your age. Savings tend to accumulate as you get older, for example, not having to pay for childcare, inheritance, redundancy, pension lump sum

Wiccan · 30/07/2023 20:32

Cheesusisgrate · 30/07/2023 19:56

Not aure what suggestion you want since I wasn't telling you to move...

No you're just judging every other part of my life . The bottom line is on here that it really doesn't matter what your life story is if you own your home it's enough to be flamed and attacked .

dorriss · 20/09/2023 05:54

it is time to reture the word 'elderly' for good and if a single older person wants a whole house why not? It may not be entirely practical in the future but who is to say that some unpleasant families deserve a big house? also the ageism over brexit is nauseating and still the idea persists that it is all about the young. Many older and poor people lost the right to live in Spain relatively cheaply and older people were prevented from retiring /living/working in Europe.The young are important but surely everyone deserves a good life and to assume that people in their 60s have had their lives and should all f... off and give up their needs is so unpleasant and feral.

DisquietintheRanks · 20/09/2023 06:15

WeightInLine · 27/07/2023 16:11

This is AIBU, so it’s rough and tumble. The posters on here are happy to call me stupid (that’s OK, I am very clever so I can take it Grin)

The OP said It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

Well, OP, I am honestly shocked that young people aren’t rioting and telling the elderly to get fucked. Because the generational struggle is real. You need more resilience if this is too much for you.

I am middle-aged and comfortable but even I can empathise with 20-somethings who work full time cannot afford to find housing never mind have a baby. While the local golf club bar is full on a Monday lunchtime of 60 somethings.

Instead of rioting maybe they could try fucking voting? Old or young we each get one vote. Difference is, older generations are more likely to bother and this is the result.

midgemadgemodge · 20/09/2023 08:54

What pisses me off is the wilful blindness

They see 20 somethings who can't afford a house and golf clubs full of over 60s

They fail to see the 20 something in a 5 bed detached and the 70 something still working a minimum wage job to pay their rent

They also fail to recognise that Most of the 60 somethings who are in golf clubs today probably also struggled in their 20s

Yes house prices are mental - don't blame the over 60s , blame Maggie who sold off council homes, blame the government who encouraged money making landlords , don't blame my parents who bought first house (in their mid to late 30s, post kids )

They did nothing and can't understand why it's now valued so high. A value they can't benefit from because they still need somewhere to live

There is bigger variability inside each generation than across it

Or to make it easy - there is roughly the same percentage of poor pensioners as poor 20 somethings and as many rich 20 somethings as rich pensioners

Wahwahwahwahwah · 20/09/2023 09:01

Lies. This is taken from the Joseph Rowntree foundation website
In 2020/21, around one in five people in the UK (20%) were in poverty – 13.4 million people. Of these, 7.9 million were working-age adults, 3.9 million were children and 1.7 million were pensioners. Therefore, one in four children in the UK are living in poverty (27%).

TruthSeeker2023 · 20/09/2023 10:17

Wahwahwahwahwah · 20/09/2023 09:01

Lies. This is taken from the Joseph Rowntree foundation website
In 2020/21, around one in five people in the UK (20%) were in poverty – 13.4 million people. Of these, 7.9 million were working-age adults, 3.9 million were children and 1.7 million were pensioners. Therefore, one in four children in the UK are living in poverty (27%).

The thing is, "poverty" is a relative issue. Lots of people in "poverty" in the "modern UK" still have big TVs in their front rooms and the "latest" "iPhones" etc.
BUT you can't really blame people for spending on "disposable" items when they know that they will never be able to afford to buy a home of their own as all the older generations have already bought them and in lots of cases using them as "second" homes and so on

Coyoacan · 20/09/2023 13:39

The thing is, "poverty" is a relative issue. Lots of people in "poverty" in the "modern UK" still have big TVs in their front rooms and the "latest" "iPhones" etc

It may be relative to you, but more and more children are ending up in hospital because of serious malnutrition.

And here you go on, insisting that this is all the responsability of old age pensioners. I really wish we had the power, you attribute to us. Millions marched against the Iraq War (three million in the UK alone) but that didn't stop Blair and Bush.

ShyMaryEllen · 20/09/2023 14:05

All the older generations have bought all the houses?

Seriously? What would you have had older people do? Live on the streets in case future generations had nowhere to live?

A quick glance at MN threads shows that there is a huge disparity between people with inheritances, those with partners on £100k incomes who can afford to be SAHMs, spend £££ on fashion and beauty and send their kids to private schools, and those who are struggling with the COLC and managing on UC top ups.

Why is it so difficult to imagine that older generations have the same range of experience and circumstances?

I assume that anyone with a mortgage expects to pay it off some day - will they then donate the house to a random younger person who 'needs it more than they do'? I'll believe that when I see it, frankly.

VimtoVimto · 21/09/2023 09:11

As an older person who do I choose to donate my (only) house to and where do you advise I live?

Will there be any recompense for what I have paid over the years on my mortgage or will it be a charitable donation?

MistressoftheDarkSide · 21/09/2023 10:19

There’s an analogy I like to use about topics like this, which are such a “hindsight” issue.

It’s like giving a child an ice cream, encouraging them to enjoy it, then when they’ve finished, slapping them upside the head and punishing them for doing so. It has a flavour of gas-lighting and breeds defensiveness and resentment, especially in those who haven’t been offered the same ice cream.

The “elderly” did what they were encouraged to do by the system as it was at the time they bought their properties - I really fail to see how they can be blamed for a market that has been allowed and rigged to spiral out of control and price out future generations.

Also as someone else pointed out, while prices crept up for a long time, it was the 2008 crash that really saw the market fall apart.

It’s human nature for those who grew up with one set of circumstances that seemed to work for them to wonder why the next generation isn’t just doing what they did to “get ahead”. If you’re not living a particular situation and haven’t had to deal with the external factors such as the market etc it’s difficult to get your head round the speed of progress, which has been exponential in the last few decades.

For every elderly person apparently living it up in their stately piles (lol) there will be a fair few who never got on the property ladder or who got onto the bottom rung and was then kicked off forever due to a fluctuation in the market. There will be people who sensibly paid into pension schemes diligently, responsibly, and then got shafted when said companies made poor investments and lost if not the lot, a good chunk of what they were promised, to avoid being a “burden on the state” and ended up in that boat anyway.

Hard working now elderly people have health conditions brought about by the work they did - because industries put profits before safety of the people generating them. “Oh we didn’t know” the industries will opine but often they did, and didn’t give a shit because the minions are replaceable.

I could go on and on (as older people do) but the bottom line is that one day, future generations will be looking at us and those younger and saying “our shit lives are your fault because you “took advantage” of x, y , z and now we can’t have nice things” when we were working with what was available, which often isn’t ideal by either ignorance or design.

The thing I remind my self of most often is that (touch wood) we’ll all be elderly at some point. It’s inevitable.

The generational divide exists, but it’s manipulated by TPTB and to suit agenda’s because a fractured and divided society is easier to control and deflects away from corruption by those in power.

Attacking the elderly as a homogeneous group is easy - lump in those with inherited wealth and advantage and the power to feather their own nests with our “average” parents and grandparents who will be claiming pension credits because redundancy, ill health and a myriad of circumstances engineered by modern life has left them in poverty is lazy and reductive.

This somewhat ranty post has been inspired by my Dad, coming up 84, a nuclear test veteran with splenic lymphoma who will never probably see an acknowledgement of how the government and the MOD treated him, a proud serving naval officer, as a Guinea pig, for an alleged “greater good”.

So please remember that for all their faults (ahem) elderly people are human beings with feelings and problems just like the rest of us. And a huge majority are just as worried about their children’s and grandchildren’s futures as everyone else.

ShyMaryEllen · 21/09/2023 15:37

Excellent post!

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