Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

[SusanandMidge]

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

If older people need care they will have to fund the care themselves if they own property,so your argument about tax payers paying for care is not a concern for you.The elderly do sell their homes to pay for their own care.

I guess what's difficult though is that that inheritance in many cases is probably the only chance those children or grandchildren will have to get on the property ladder.

Also, there isn't much in the sheltered housing market (ie you live independently in a very small flat but there is a warden on hand managing the block, and events etc put on for the residents) - what there is seems to be council run, so unless you're a council tenant being shifted due to the bedroom tax out of your home, certainly near me there is no private provision for anything like this, where you could choose and pay to go. We need more of this option desperately (the equivalent of the American 'retirement village', but developers don't want to build it because they get more money for actual flats.

Once you need assistance, such as toileting, or you are diagnosed with something like dementia which means you need proper care, you will be turfed out of your sheltered accomodation, or if you are unable to live in your own home, and that's when you go to a home. The issue with this is that even with government subsidies, the costs are such (£1k plus a week) that it will burn through the value of an average sized home in a few years, so what then happens if you live longer than the value of your house?

it's logical that anyone who doesn't work, or who sets their own schedule, wouldn't do their shopping at lunchtime or on a Saturday. Why would they?

You can't imagine a scenario where an older person regularly meets with younger family and/or friends? That would be working family or friends able to meet at the weekend only, perhaps?? Is it really beyond your understanding that people in their 60s may still be working? Or volunteering well into their 70s and even beyond? My mum gave up working aged 80. She isn't alone in that.

Our home has increased in value by the same amount as every other house or flat. We have lived here 30 years. We looked at retirement flats locally a couple of weeks ago and we actually couldn't afford to move. Whatever profit we made by selling up would soon go on ground rent and service charges. Then what happens?
If we need care or can't afford the charges we would have to go into a home. I honestly would rather die.
Maybe by then we will have euthenasia as per Canada.

My elderly neighbour…and yes she lives in a four bedroom house ,volunteers at local BHF shop . She is 85 and would never sell her house because her garden is what actually keeps her going. She has lived in the house since she was 23 . Her house is worth about £900k so the average family would struggle to buy it .

The fact is that even the older people who "paid in all their lives" will still have paid a large amount less than those who are currently paying.

Absolutely not true. The basic rate of tax was 33% when I started work. The basic rate is currently the lowest it’s been in my life time - and I’m still (quite rightly) paying tax on my pensions. I was a higher rate tax payer for most of my working life and so I won’t have paid “a large amount less”, quite the reverse.

There’d be no point in us downsizing to provide an accommodation for a young family because very few young families could afford to buy our house. Or perhaps we should just give it away?

I'd say that your kids and/or grandkids could inherit it, but that would get slagged off on here as well. ;)

So if people hop over to the thread about’ how many savings do people have ‘ many people definitely have a lot more‘savings’ than my generation 🤷‍♀️We used deckchairs and fold up tables for furniture when we bought our first home.

@Baconisdelicious
I put these naive, unworkable ideas down to the ignorance of youth.

A memory has just come back to me: when I was I my twenties, I thought that people with prams and buggies should avoid clogging up the streets in town on Saturdays. After all, back then (in my mind, anyway) they were nearly all SAHM who had the rest of the week to do that kind of thing ... .

I think I was actually pregnant at the time, but don't remember giving it any thought again after my baby was born. 😄

How old were you? I'm guessing not your mid-thirties.

Pensioners in council housing have no chance of buying, and would probably have great difficulty in getting a rental property in the private sector because their income is likely to be too low to meet current rent levels.

Where would you propose that they live?

No point in us downsizing to provide an accommodation for a young family because very few young families could afford to buy our house

that point has come up a few times on this thread. Is it a stealth boast?

Does it mean ...
"No one else at all can buy"
"No one with a larger family could buy"
"Only minted 50+ somethings could afford our place" ?

I imagine the people saying that do expect to die one day, someone else will live in the property in future. Do you reckon that your property will be broken up into flats? Should it be broken up into flats if "almost no one with a larger family than mine could afford it" ?

I'm hugely looking forward to downsizing. My mental hurdle at moment is cats, ours are used to having a lot of land to roam on. There is only one not too busy road here. Any advice for how to get cats more savvy in quite urban, smaller garden & home territory environment?

Retirement flats are becoming a major scandal. Almost impossible to sell if an elderly person has to move out or dies. The service charges (as much as £500 pm) keep piling up. I just read this morning about a man who had to sell his late father's McCarthy and Stone flat for £30K. His dad had used his life savings to buy it for £165K.
I wouldn't want to risk it because the service charges are out of control.
There is a shortage of smaller properties on the market and bungalows are very expensive.
If elderly people shouldn't be allowed to stay in their council houses, for which they pay rent, where should they go?

It means what it says @lljkk.

Don’t get me started on bungalows. There are already far too few of them and of those few many are being extended upwards making them useless for downsizing.

Christ, these culture wars are just terrible for society. I am now mortgage free yay! Was homeless at 17yrs and with DH have worked our arses off raising our children. I really feel for the younger generation as having (eventually) been a renter and the instability it creates as well as the other barriers such as accessing loans and having to put every address in the last 5 years which is problematic if sofa surfing creates a two tier society. If I won the lottery I would become e a social housing landlord. I do not wish to downsize until my own kids have there own places. I have looked at smaller ho especially as where I live they are possibly more affordable for young couples however every single one is going to auction. Which is a real issue as only thise with spare cash can afford. This is ALL ABOUT government policy or the "hands off" approach to wealth acquisition. I think the second or more homes brought by the rich and homes particularly in the capital bought as investments by wealthy foreign investors appear to constantly escape scrutiny, but rather these pointless, divisive arguments which serve to play us all against each other while detracting from those that have the real power.

Don’t even get me started on age-gap relationship threads.

Every man over sixty can’t get it up, or is a dirty old man (make your mind up, ffs), is going to need a carer any minute, is boring and set in their ways, has saggy balls down to their knees, etc etc.

It’s horrible.

And of course controlling his younger partner because of the power imbalance of his greater life experience at the same time as being so unattractive.

The truth is that most of the faux concern about "power imbalance" is jealousy and anger that an eligible older man has been taken from the potential partner pool by a younger woman.

I don't think it's stealth boasting they are those types of homes that just command that type of price . I no longer have a mortgage on my home as we over paid and knocked 8 years off our mortgage and I'm not joking when I say this , if I put my house on the market tomorrow I wouldn't be able to afford to buy it !!

Yes MN is horribly ageist about older men. My DH is 73, I’m 62. He’s fit and healthy and still works (university academic, considered leading expert in his field) though not full time and still very keen on travelling - we went to Australia and New Zealand earlier this year.

if I put my house on the market tomorrow I wouldn't be able to afford to buy it

See this is an example of how older people have wealth they didn't actually "earn"

Not having a go at you @Wiccan just sick of all the PP suggesting the reason they managed to buy their nice houses was because they were frugal and hard working. Chances are at today's prices they would have had the exact same problems as today's younger people (as you just showed here)

It’s a minority who say that though. I openly admit that the thing that got me on the property ladder was a 100% mortgage not frugality - that isn’t really an option when you’re the single parent of a teenager!

There are differences, generally, in how different generations run their lives. I’m 40s, and have grown up with a healthy dose of my parents’ frugality (in their 70s) but with the increased independence of more recent generations. I find it very difficult, but fulfilling, to fit in full time work with busy children’s lives. I get very frustrated when my parents will not attempt to do anything by themselves without asking me. They benefited from getting into grammar schools just for being bright (no tutoring obvs), free university education and being able to buy a big house on one salary. I think they had it easier. I don’t mind, as I’ve had a pretty good life so far, but it feels like they’ve quickly settled into enjoying old age and having expectations of what services I’ll provide when they could just pay for eg cleaning, handyman, gardener. I know not everyone is like this, but it’s something I’m keeping an eye on as I don’t want to get drawn into providing care or having another life to coordinate. I think these thoughts are probably what makes me part of ageist Mumsnet.

sick of all the PP suggesting the reason they managed to buy their nice houses was because they were frugal and hard working

but that is exactly the case for many? Why do you find that a problem? Being old isn’t the same as uneducated or downright stupid…just because someone says they bought their house through frugality and hard work does mean they are unable to recognise that there are other issues at play in today’s housing market, does it?

Because we were frugal and not expecting every piece of furniture to be brand new..not sure why that annoys you so much. We saved and paid for everything .

I do agree that the younger generation are really struggling though but I don't think it's fair to blame people individually for the situation .Many of my generation did not vote tories or brexit and its a massive generalisation to think otherwise. We definitely had a labour government for 10 years 1997-2007 and which would have included the voters people are now blaming. .