Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

[SusanandMidge]

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

Piss off with this disingenuous BS. If more young people had registered to vote and voted in the same proportions that older people did we wouldn’t have had Brexit

Well pensioners shouldn't starve. But neither should anybody else! If general benefits are enough for the rest they should be good enough for pensioners.
Also - people don't understand how pension works. You don't 'get out' what you put in. You pay for the generation ABOVE you.
Because of the ageing population problem there's a smaller pool of young people paying for an increasing amount of older people. it's an arithmetic issue.

Especially as many don't 'need' it.

Put it all into a general pot and give it to those who need it, Yes people were 'promised' state pensions but times change.

Also those of us paying now... in 30+ years will probably have nothing the way it's going.

Well many people seem to feel that older people should not be enjoying their later years playing golf etc., should not be allowed remain in the family home they spent years paying for, and should basically move into one room flats and spend their days watching repeats on telly and staying out of sight rather than 'flaunting' their 'good fortune' to a younger generation (who, by the way, often depend of their parents for child care and help with buying a house).

My mum used to bitterly complain about all the old people causing queues in the shops at lunch time when she was on her break. Now she's one of the them!

Sorry but I do agree that people in social housing should downsize though- and that's not just 'old' people but younger ones with too many rooms once the kids have left.

@PomTiddlyPom " as 'old' in people's minds covers everything from 90+ year olds who went to war"

Very few of today's 90+ year olds went to war!

@Anxioys 'UK society is rigged against young people when we ought to be investing in them. '

I disagree. I think today's young are so used to being spoon fed, they just don't realise it. Although that is our fault.

I started work at 13 cleaning a pub at the weekend. I worked from 13-18 at the weekends. 16-21 I worked all summer holiday in a toy factory because I was one of five and my parents were barely surviving. I went to university on a grant that didn't cover my books and room. Nothing for food or clothes or socialising. No parental backup at all. Student loans didn't exist so you worked or starved. I worked 5 nights a week in a pub while studying. I graduated with £8.32 in my account.

Later I discovered I'd worked so many hours while a student, those years actually counted as NI qualifying. 😀

But suggest a teen or a student gets a job now and people are shocked - how can they study? It'll affect their grades ! Well yes, but how do you think we all managed?

Expect them to work two jobs and they look like you've suggested they live on gruel. But I did. Expect them to decorate their own houses or service their own motor bike (couldn't afford a car) and they think you are crazy. The lack of self sufficiency and resourcefulness is frightening. How will they cope in a crisis? I'm not convinced they will.

I'm raising my ds alone. He's 14 and already has a job. He knows he must save if he wants to go to university. I'll be in a better place than my parents to help him, but I'll be a retired single mum, so it won't be much.

I think X is being somewhat spared atm

I've seen some jibes against Gen X starting on here, often lumped in like "Boomer/Gen X".

who decides who needs it? What should it be spent on - diverting money from pensioners (including the 2 million living in poverty) or means testing it is a dangerous slope - they did that with CB. Maybe the government should tax people better - and companies, and fund education, health etc properly?

Maybe companies should pay people more - rather than profit more?

Most of the people who benefitted originally from improved employment rights policies tried very hard to encourage younger workers to keep them, join unions, refuse to work unpaid overtime etc.
But many young people ignored this and older, soon to retire workers could only look on in dismay as they saw all their hard won achievements being eroded because of the unwillingness of younger workers to join unions and their eagerness to turn the workplace into a competitive 'dog eats dog' environment.

Give over. They aren't spoon fed and if they are, that's on the generations that raised them. Who did the feeding?

You saying there's merit in things being hard just ignores the fact for very many young people it's difficult. And patronizing them in general doesn't help. Particularly if what you say, and much of this thread is exactly like that, it is done from a position of considerable comfort based on much greater state spending in times past.

People's reaction to an (unprecedented) anti-COVID measure is a red herring - it has no bearing on this conversation.

Boomers
Millennials
Generation Z
Immigrants
Benefits claimers
Southerners
Remainers
Leavers
Northerners
Brexiters
Transpeople ducks

It's all about getting us to blame each other for our woes, instead of the top 1% who are hoarding over 20% of the nation's wealth.

I hear you - I got a loan when I went but was self supporting - I worked 4 jobs (2 all year round a 2 more in the summer) and in my post grad year took a bus, a train, then had a lift to uni (paying petrol money) every day - it was a 4 hour round trip. My 3 all work (even the 15 yr old has a cash in hand job) and have to to afford uni - single parent and low income. It's odd that people are horrified at students working on here - or older children paying keep -

It is an example of how wants and needs have become confused in many people's minds. And I will decide what I wish to contribute to this conversation (which I initiated) thank you very much.

Sorry what time is this supposed to be? Like decade?

When I was young University Students got Summer jobs to help fund their next year in University. Now they use the money to go on holidays. I'm not saying that's wrong but it doesn't speak of an older generation who had it much easier than today's young people. Every generation has its challenges and speaking disparagingly of older people and their 'privileged' lives is totally inaccurate.

Yes but you seem to be saying 'I struggled so it is fine if others do too'.

Lots of casual ageism on here directed at old and young. Mostly in the form of sweeping assumptions about 'old ladies' or 'Gen Z' being respectively cantankerous or 'snowflakes'.

Well, OP, are you going to complain about the ageism on this thread directed at all the young people?

The ones who won’t join unions? Or who are entitled?

The past 2 or 3 decades, but starting gradually and getting worse.

Ageism from both directions I think.

I've seen a lot of posters saying that young people shouldn't have kids they can't afford because the wage to home price ratio is so high now (10-1 in my area). So basically I can't have a child because our current government have fucked our economy up, particularly for young people. Our government is very ageist against young people, none of their policies help them really. They have purposefully stoked division.

I have nothing against older people, but I don't like older people who are ignorant to the above and are very smug about how they have benefited from an ageist government. They can be quite goady about it.

No I don't think older people should give their homes up, but they could at least acknowledge younger peoples struggles to just have a basic standard of living, instead spouting crap like them spending excessively when they aren't. My dad wasted a ton of money in the pub, as many people did back in the day. It just got glossed over people they could afford to.

Up until the 80s joining a union felt like A Good Thing.
Ironically it was Labour distancing themselves from them that really changed things. On top of course of Thatcher's anti union legislation.

I was encouraged to join a Union by older members of my profession when I entered it in 1989.

@WeetabixTowels said:

Round these parts, if a developer builds a certain number of houses on a new estate (let’s say for example 500) they have to make a certain % social housing. Result, right! Except it’s not - they just build 495. It infuriates me and I’m amazed people fall for buying these overpriced plastic tat houses.

This!

Round my way, the developer gets permission granted which includes a certain % for social housing but then goes back later and says the development won't be viable if they do that. So council then says "OK give us £xyz as an offset" and the amendment is agreed. That £xyz never equals the true cost and ends up sitting only God knows where... Certainly not in social housing!

not at all - but I do think some 'struggles' today aren't really hardships - they are wants and choices

There is a view that my generation didn't struggle and had everything handed to them on a plate - even on this thread - just pointing out that's not true

One thing I find odd on these debates is that there is often the view that the young are entitled, lazy, don't work hard, don't save, have too many dc etc. but pensioners who are struggling because they don't have a pension or didn't buy a house should have lots of sympathy. Why doesn't empathy apply for both or after a certain age are you just no longer feckless? Do todays young feckless not grow into the old feckless?