Ageism on Mumsnet (and in society)

[SusanandMidge]

There's a discussion going on at the moment as to whether old people should be made move out of their family homes to free them up for younger couples (which thankfully no one on that particular thread is endorsing). However it's a topic that has come up a number of times on MN with many posters bitterly begrudging the fact that old people are 'hogging' family sized homes, or that their parents' house is now worth ten times what they paid for it in 1972.

I have also seen posters complaining about elderly people using the supermarket at weekends or being in the post office at lunchtime, because they should leave these busy times to working people; questioning why their teenagers should offer seats to elderly people who travel for free; and in many ways belittling and being unpleasant about the older generation.

I know all generations get their stereotyping but some of the ageism is really unpleasant. It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

Why do people think that older people bought their houses in the first place? The same reason as young people do - as somewhere to bring up their children, and to provide security in older age.

I am 64 and live in a 4 bed house, in which we brought up our children (now adults). It's nothing special - just a terrace - but is in a nice part of a nice town, on the flat and near shops, doctors and transport. Why would I want to spend thousands on stamp duty, solicitors, estate agents, removals etc to sell it and move to somewhere smaller in a less convenient part of town? The only bungalows anywhere near are on out of town estates, or sprawling things out of my price range.

As for 'Boomers' having it easy - don't get me started. How anyone can think that someone born in 1945 can be grouped with someone born in 1965 when it comes to life experiences or pretty much anything is beyond me, and that's before you allow for sex, class and other differences. It's lazy stereotyping at best.

Trust Germaine Greer to sum it up in a sharp retort, when someone was complaining: "Try being an old woman"

Also, re a pop video of a trans person walking naked down the street:

'Referring to the Will Young video, Greer said: “Try doing that if you were a 76-year-old woman. They would throw a blanket over you. They would throw you in a waste disposal unit. People are intolerant.” '

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/nov/18/transgender-activists-protest-germaine-greer-lecture-cardiff-university

If you were arguing that everyone, whatever their age, should only be allowed to occupy a house that matches the size of their families, that would be a reasonable argument (though still not one that i would agree with), but you are just making it about the elderly. Why, when there are many younger people in larger properties than they genuinely need, too?

I only know one person in real life who doesn’t make excuses for being on the site when referring to reading something on Mumsnet so those who are dismissing others due to their age on Mumsnet might want to think about what other people are dismissing them for. You might think you are so cool and groovy not like those oldies hogging the houses and the rush hour queue then you say “Mumsnet” and perhaps it’s you that will feel the shade.

Ageism is just as ugly as other prejudices but it's still very prevalent and tolerated.

MN are usually good at deleting though.

Exactly! You’d also need to add in why are rich people ‘allowed’ to have more than one home. And as someone else mentioned why are people allowed bigger cars than they need, surely single people should just ride bikes and not have cars. Why are people allowed cigarettes, alcohol, sweets, more than three outfits etc. It’d be awful if everyone was allocated/allowed only what they strictly need rather than what they want and can afford.

Running up costs on more and more expensive drugs on the NHS and expecting working people to fund it

Er ...

All my working life I paid National Insurance, which is what goes to fund the NHS.

Just like you (presumably?) do. And I'm sure that you will expect treatment/drugs from the NHS when you need them, in your own old age!

Stupid, stupid thing to say.

Retiring at 50 and then expecting to be waited on for the next 30yrs etc by people who can’t afford their rent etc

Where are these people? Can you put me in touch with them, as I'd like that very much!

Another stupid comment.

Seriously?? This is a ridiculously sweeping statement full of lazy thinking and nastiness.

Define 'elderly'.

That NI isn’t in a pot somewhere, you know. It was spent the year you paid it. Stupid, stupid thing to say.

What’s being spent now is someone else’s NI. Higher than it’s ever been when you paid it. Oh and higher tax burden generally to pay for the massive NHS.

Oh, but the triple lock on pensions is safe.

JFC. The stupid hurts.

I agree OP. MN in particular is rife with ageism.

I do think a lot of it is down to the level of entitlement displayed by parents now.

For the same reason that a couple with no children or a single person who is under 60 "clog up" 4 bed homes....because it's their home and they want to live in it. Or is that different because those people aren't <shudder> elderly?

MN seems to be an absolute hotbed of ageism.

Old people should live in small houses so someone with a family can live in theirs.

’Boomers’ is intended these days, to be a derogatory term. The thing is, those who use it have no idea what life was like in the 70s.

Grandparents should do childcare, should feed the children exactly what the parents demand, despite the fact that they’re not paying for it.

MiLs are universally hated here, but fortunately, not in real life.

What younger people who berate older people forget, is that one day, they might be that older person. They might be the one left alone, struggling with dismissed mobility or any of the other afflictions of age. It doesn’t mean that older people have lost the capacity to love and care for others, or that they have nothing to contribute to society, or that they’re disinterested in modern life. Please don’t assume we’re all doddering fools who are incapable of embracing technology or anything else that’s current.

My House has four bedrooms and we may well downsize, but the opportunity to do so is rare here and we want to stay local because there are the facilities we need.

I think it stems from frustration with lack of access to buying property and the fear of never being able to retire or being in poverty when old, compared to the baby boomer generation who by and large did have more access to these things during their adult lives. At the same time, a lot of people my age (I'm 32) feel that as a cohort, older generations have political views and voting behaviour that actively makes our lives more difficult. It does. Not justify ageism against individuals though, and no one should have to feel bad or apologetic for the generation they are part of, but I think this is where it stems from.

I knew this would get worse after the Covid lockdowns and all the economic and social hardship they entailed were spun as being to protect ‘the elderly’.

so WeightInLine clearly thinks that we should be euthanised when we stop work. How can one person manage to be both thoroughly unpleasant and stupid? OAPs pay the same level of tax as anyone else on the same income. She is correct that NI pays pay the current year, but does she really believe that someone who has paid in for maybe 47 years should not be allowed medicine because they no longer pay NI. What a nasty person.

This is AIBU, so it’s rough and tumble. The posters on here are happy to call me stupid (that’s OK, I am very clever so I can take it )

The OP said It's a minority of posters but their begrudging, bitter and hostile attitude towards the elderly can be really depressing to read.

Well, OP, I am honestly shocked that young people aren’t rioting and telling the elderly to get fucked. Because the generational struggle is real. You need more resilience if this is too much for you.

I am middle-aged and comfortable but even I can empathise with 20-somethings who work full time cannot afford to find housing never mind have a baby. While the local golf club bar is full on a Monday lunchtime of 60 somethings.

If someone is able to retire at 50 it is because they invested their money wisely, not because the State is supporting them.

Likewise huge amounts of public money has been and is currently being used to try and find cures for cancer, alzheimers, MND etc. Much of this research funding came from the pockets of those who will be dead before it bears any fruit. Medical progress is a rolling thing, each generation benefitting from the funding and dedication of those who went before them. They don't bear you any grudge for that, yet you grudge them being given new progressive drugs to prolong their lives?

Is 50 old now? My friend is 51 and her youngest is 7. I don’t know anyone who retired at 50 - youngest was 59 but it was being properly minted from well paying job that facilitated that, not size of pension.

Pensioners do pay tax and the retirement age has increased. But keep going with the cheap shots.

My point was retirements are longer.

Gosh how dare retired people actually enjoy their retirement after years of working. You do realise that many of them started work at 16 or 17? Could not afford foreign holidays until their children were nearly grown up? Lived in half furnished houses for years after they acquired them while they saved up for chairs and curtains etc.
No one is saying that getting on the property market is easy nowadays, or that it's fair that both parents have no choice but to work and have their children minded in order to pay rent or a mortgage. But that doesn't equate to 'old people had it cushy and are just spoilt and selfish'.